Two Plus Two Older Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Older Archives > Tournament Poker > Multi-table Tournaments

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 12-31-2005, 07:57 AM
Dan Mezick Dan Mezick is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Foxwoods area
Posts: 297
Default Re: Follow up bets

JeanneJ,

There is not enough information to answer. Provide some example flops.

For example if the board looks like a str8 or flush you can bet 1/4 pot and that looks like an invitation-- suspicious-- and you can take it down with 1/4 if the opponent is a decent player who missed. So here your husband's assertion holds.

Paired boards are another decent example. If you can be first in to bet at a paired-board rainbow flop with 3 or less opponents in the pot, with a trash hand, you can often bet 1/2 which looks like a come-on-in, Ive-got-trips raise. Suspicious again. Decent player that missed cannot call.

Note that both plays are more effective with position. In your example you are last to act in a 2-way pot and its is implied in your example that SB has checked.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-31-2005, 10:08 AM
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Follow up bets

In my opinion, a standard continuation bet should be about 1/2 to 2/3 of the pot and that should not change based on the value of your hand, but rather the texture of the flop and how many draws are possible. There are rarely times that I see a pot sized bet as necessary.

Greg Raymer had always said that the best bet to pickup the pot in this situation is the absolute least amount that will get your opponent to fold.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-31-2005, 12:26 PM
betgo betgo is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 792
Default Re: Follow up bets

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree that the higher the buy in the more difference it makes.

Are higher limit players more likely to fold to a follow up bet? Or are you more likely to get called?

[/ QUOTE ]

Higher limit players are generally much easier to bluff. Low limit players tend to be tougher and recognize a continuation bet for what it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're kidding me right? At the higher buyins (say $100+), you will get check-raised after making a continuation bet about 75% of the time. You will get raised by air alot, and also made hands.

For example, you raise AK and the BB calls.

The flop comes 924. The BB has 10Js and checks to you. You bet 2/3 the pot. If the BB is a tough player, he will probably raise you here. He figures you for a couple of high cards, and if you have a PP he is probably willing to take that risk as it is more likely you have nothing.

In the lower buyins, people say "o well, i missed that flop, I'll fold."

[/ QUOTE ]

I was half kidding. On the whole, I think continuation bets work better against stronger players. Weaker players, typical of low buyin events, are likely to be calling stations. If they have something, they will call or raise you. Sometimes you have to make a followup bet on the turn to convince them you are ahead. However, some calling station types will call you down all the way with bottom pair or whatever.

Against stronger players, you have to make the continuation bet believable. You want to fire at an Axx, KQx, or low rag flop representing an ace, high cards, or overpair respectively. Stronger players are likely to raise or call with the intention of taking the pot on the turn if you continuation bet flops like K82,r or 77J.

Against weaker players, I would be more likely to cbet a flop that looks like it missed everyone. Against stronger players, I would cbet a flop that looks like it would hit the preflop raiser.

It also depends on how the table is playing. In online rebuys, between the rebuy period and the bubble, I would be reluctant to cbet or make any bluff.

There are different types of weak low buyin players. Online, you find a lot of maniac and calling station types. Obviously, a cbet works better against a weak/tight player.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-31-2005, 05:23 PM
bruce bruce is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: los angeles, ca.
Posts: 179
Default Re: Follow up bets

The smaller the buyin the bigger the cb needs to be. As a side note try checking the flop when it misses you (and of course when it hits you) and make a move on the turn. Very
few people do this, esp. online, and if done correctly can
be very effective. A lot of the European players in live play employ this tactic with great success.

Bruce
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-31-2005, 06:32 PM
ansky451 ansky451 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 24
Default Re: Follow up bets

I'm sorry it seems I'm always busting your chops Jeannie, but I'm going to again. The enitre concept of this thread is perpetuating a bad way of thinking about poker. In your random example, there are so many factors to be considered.

1) Your hand has showdown value. I'm more more willing to take off a free card and possibly even call turn and river bets with ace high when I have a hand like ace king rather than if I raised 97s and I whiffed. You should sometimes CB, sometimes check behind. There are spots when cont. betting is essential, and there are spots where it is no so important.

2) You are in position. You have better control of pot size in NL Hold'em when you are in position. Assuming you are out of position against an opponent, you reduce his positional advantage with larger bets. IE its harder for him to get tricky and float, or bluff raise, or make ballsy calls when you are betting full pot rather than half pot.

3) There are different flops. A flop like 239 should not be treated like a Q97 flop, or a 987s flop. You generally should be more likely to cont bet on rainbow boards with 1 big card, rather than all rags, or highly coordinated boards. When I raise AK and get called by a blind, and the flop comes 789 of 1 suit (i dont have the suit), I'm very much ready to check behind and give up.

4) READS! Poker is about playing the [censored] player---- there is no universal answer to your question because there is no default player. Ok, barring a read everyone is a default, but you should be able to get SOMETHING on a player. Reads in tournaments are so crucial, for situations exactly like these. You want us to answer a question in vacuum. Poker is not played in a vacuum.

5) Stack sizes. With shortstacks, making the decision to cont. bet or not can be very important, and fundamental to the preservation of your stack. If you have to cont bet for 1/4th of your stakc, you should definitely be considering how often your opponent will be check raising you. If you have a hand that has likely has 6 outs, taking a free card will have more value then if you raised a hand like 67s and you likely have 0 outs on a board like A83 if you are behind.

6) Your table image. If I am viewed as a [censored] maniac, I'm probably going to slow down. Seeing as how I usually am viewed as a maniac, this happens a lot.

Well. That was fun.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.