Almost free online music?

[pshreck]

Yeah, thanks for all the examples. You both grew up rich, and know rich people who stole. I already said, I was generalizing and not saying that all stealers dont have money, just most. If you guys seem to think that rich kids make up a large portion of those people stealing, then lets just agree to disagree, because I dont know how to explain it any further.

[bear187]

I make money and usually get money from my parents when I ask for it. I still steal things out of convienience and for fun.

[GuyOnTilt]

You both grew up rich

This is very far from the truth. It's becoming more and more obvious you aren't capable of objective and logical discussion or thought.

I was generalizing and not saying that all stealers dont have money, just most.

You started throwing in caveats after it became obvious you were wrong, but your first few statements were definitely not referring to "most".

If you guys seem to think that rich kids make up a large portion of those people stealing, then lets just agree to disagree

Again, it's now very obvious you don't know how to logically debate. None of us said anything like this at all. I think it's in the anti-stealing side's best interest if you just stopped posting in this thread. Both Michael and I are on the same side of that issue as you, yet we've both taken several posts to tell you how illogical you're being. Doesn't that say something to you?

GoT

[turnipmonster]

you are doing exactly that. it's money out of the artist's pocket, justify it any way you want. I say this as someone who's on numerous records and has worked as a professional musician for many, many years. it's money out of my pocket.

[turnipmonster]

again, artist's contracts with their labels and distributers are up to them, and an agreement between two parties. most artists on major labels get a small % of the sale (although they get composer's royalties if they wrote the song) because they choose it.

artists that are on smaller indie labels get a much larger % of the cd price.

I fail to see why the artist's contract with their label should have anything to do with whether or not someone decides to steal music, however.

[pshreck]

[ QUOTE ]

If you guys seem to think that rich kids make up a large portion of those people stealing, then lets just agree to disagree

Again, it's now very obvious you don't know how to logically debate.

GoT

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for logically criticizing my abilities to debate, which is fine, but let's stick to the issue. What problem do you have with the statement that I think those who are stealing CD's are doing it because they don't have money. Is your whole argument based on the fact that in my original argument, you thought I intended 'all' and not 'most'? Now who is the one who can't logically debate here man? These upper-class towns and kids make up a very small percentage of the population as opposed to those who don't freely have money to buy CDs, and that argument is not 'fallacious'. I am sorry I generalized you as rich if this is untrue, you simply knew rich people I guess? Did you really need for me to point out that my opinion was generalizing? Or are you just nitpicking?

EDIT: by the way, my use of the word 'rich' in this post means upper middle class and higher. I honestly don't know if you would give me crap on that too.

[MicroBob]

[ QUOTE ]
Downloading music is like building your own XM Radio receiver. Subscribing to XM Radio costs money, so it's wrong for you to get it for free when others pay. HOWEVER! It's not like it costs XM Radio more to broadcast to you specifically. You're just getting a free ride which, ultimately, costs everyone.

It's LESS wrong than shoplifting an XM Radio receiver

[/ QUOTE ]


I would have no problem if I somehow started getting XM radio for free....but I wouldn't go out of my way to build a receiver for it (partly because I suck at electronics and would get frustrated and annoyed).


When I moved into my apartment a couple years ago the guy that was moving out told me "oh yeah...that wire there is free cable..some other guy set it up before I got here."

I've had free cable for the past 2 years that otherwise would have cost me $50/mth or so...I feel no guilt about it and actually think more along the lines "freaking cool....I get free cable. Awesome!!"
I feel no need to call the cable-company and turn myself in...yet I also know that receiving cable for free without paying for it is illegal.


however...I do think I might have a slight moral issue with actually calling someone to come over to set up the free-cable thing for me.

i'm not sure why this is though.

[GuyOnTilt]

What problem do you have with the statement that I think those who are stealing CD's are doing it because they don't have money.

The fact that it's wrong. If you meant "most" or even better "a large number", then I have no problem with it. The problem is you didn't say that. In the future when you're debating or discussing, be sure to say what you mean and choose your words more carefully.

Now who is the one who can't logically debate here man?

Point me to a place in this thread where I've made a false or flawed statement. I'm not saying there's not one 'cause I don't ever preview or proof-read my posts, but if there is one point it out so I can fix it.

These upper-class towns and kids make up a very small percentage of the population as opposed to those who don't freely have money to buy CDs

This is probably true.

I am sorry I generalized you as rich if this is untrue, you simply knew rich people I guess?

I was fortunate enough to get scholarships to attend private schools growing up, despite my family's lack of abundant finances. And yeah, that did mean knowing a lot of rich people.

GoT

[SomethingClever]

[ QUOTE ]
It matters because people act like downloaders are taking the bread out of their kids' mouths.

I still don't see how it matters. Is stealing only wrong if you're stealing someone's necessities? Would stealing a stanger's $1,000 Gucci handbag be okay in your opinion while stealing your neighbor's $1,000 bedset be wrong? Do you see theft for personal gain justifiable just so long as the victim can afford it in your eyes?

GoT

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it matters in terms of whether or not downloading is right or wrong.

It's wrong.

But it's like a millionaire complaining about getting a parking ticket.

[pshreck]

[ QUOTE ]
If you meant "most" or even better "a large number", then I have no problem with it. The problem is you didn't say that.

[/ QUOTE ]

This was the base of our whole mini-argument. I thought it was clear that statements like this are accepted as generalizing, but I guess not. I view forum debating as more like verbal debates, but through the net. I think you view them as a little more structured, and you are certainly not wrong for looking at it differently than I am.

As for my ability to logically debate, I will disagree. I think we just have different standards for arguing, and mine are, well, lower.