big pot, multi-way OOP, missed flop yet still interesting

jt1 · #1 12-13-2005, 12:41 PM

CO is a LAG

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, CO raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, UTG calls, CO calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, CO checks.

Turn: (6 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, CO bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG folds, CO calls.

River: (10 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks,

Final Pot: 10 BB

I have to check call this river, because, villian is an auto river bluffer. Does this fact that he is an auto river bluffer make my turn play a bit more "meh".

Also, because, the board is so coordinated that check folding the turn might be best. But after the action, I feel I have the best hand and I think I should do what I can to win a big pot.

I know I should be posting hands of situations that come up frequently, but this hand is so interesting that I couldn't resist. I'm pretty sure I played this right. But you never know, I might learn something here.

Peter Harris · #2 12-13-2005, 12:49 PM

i think this line is fine. CO, if lag, will have a quite wide raising range - why didnt CO bet the flop with any PP? I'd read them for overs/

On the turn CO is not gonna give another free card, so the c/r is good. Works perfectly to get it HU.

I say c/c the river - if you lose to AK or AT, so be it. You may chop AQ, beat KQ, KJ and A9s.

Goot work methinks.

gharp · #3 12-13-2005, 01:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have to check call this river, because, villian is an auto river bluffer.

[/ QUOTE ]
Would he auto-bluff raise that river? If not, I think I like betting better because of the possibility he might fold an unimproved AK or another AQ.

jba · #4 12-13-2005, 01:02 PM

do we have a read on BB/UTG? this is a fairly raggedy board and decent players will be aware of the LAG behind them and be hesitant to get in the middle of a flop war. if this is the case I will sometimes bet the flop there, but it's a special case and only a good plan when there's a good chance it ends up HU

I think I like your line though.

Redd · #5 12-13-2005, 01:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have to check call this river, because, villian is an auto river bluffer.

[/ QUOTE ]
Would he auto-bluff raise that river? If not, I think I like betting better because of the possibility he might fold an unimproved AK or another AQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he's a LAG he'd almost certainly pf-cap AK and likely AQ. Plus, he may not even fold them on the river.

aargh57 · #6 12-13-2005, 01:37 PM

Just wondering if you were going to c/r a flop bet here? I think that you played it very well and think a check call on the river is good. Why do you think that the fact that he's an auto bluffer makes the turn play not as good. Wouldn't you be happy to get some hands out here (like pp's or A4). I'm guessing it's because you can pick up an extra bet from him if you do hit?

jt1 · #7 12-13-2005, 03:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Just wondering if you were going to c/r a flop bet here?

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I doubt it. A flop cr wouldn't have folded any gutshots. I'd just call.

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you think that the fact that he's an auto bluffer makes the turn play not as good.

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Because, I have to a see SD no matter what, unless he 3 bets me. In other words, I have to pay 3 bets instead of 2 to see if I'm good. It takes away from my ev a little bit.

aargh57 · #8 12-13-2005, 03:14 PM

{quote}
[ QUOTE ]
Why do you think that the fact that he's an auto bluffer makes the turn play not as good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because, I have to a see SD no matter what, unless he 3 bets me. In other words, I have to pay 3 bets instead of 2 to see if I'm good. It takes away from my ev a little bit.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I can see that now. However, don't you think adding some equity by getting the other players to fold is worth it here? That's the way I'm always thinking in these situations, maybe I shouldn't be though. In other words, when I have a decent pot and a hand that may be best or has chances of winning I usually try to push it to increase my chances. Maybe I'm applying this concept too often.

jt1 · #9 12-13-2005, 03:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
OK, I can see that now. However, don't you think adding some equity by getting the other players to fold is worth it here? That's the way I'm always thinking in these situations, maybe I shouldn't be though. In other words, when I have a decent pot and a hand that may be best or has chances of winning I usually try to push it to increase my chances. Maybe I'm applying this concept too often.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was pretty sure I played the hand right. The feedback I've gotten so far agrees with me. So, though these situations are extremely rare, if you are raising here then you are probably correct.

BTW, after re-reading your post, I want to affirm that you are right in thinking that when the pot is big, you should do everything within reason to win it.