MUBS or appropriate caution?

[W. Deranged]

My only comment is that you will never, ever, ever, ever, ever fold out a small A by raising this flop. Not at .05/.1, not at 5/10, not at 50/100, not at 500/100.

If you are raising the flop it is for value and protection but never for promotion. It's very important to realize this sort of thing otherwise you're going to be making a lot of raises in the wrong places for the wrong reasons.

[imported_leader]

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I don't get the flop raise. What do you want other players to fold here? They aren't folding a flush draw. Like 23 or 34? I'd rather call and see the turn. Given those two cards I'd probably call down as opposed to raising as some point.

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It doesn't matter if they'll fold or not but I'd much rather they pay 2-bets with whatever they're drawing with. The flop raise is for value.

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My point is that we don't want them to fold. We want them to call drawing to runner-runner trips. It's .05/.10 I guess. So maybe it's irrelevant.

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I don't believe that's right. We raise to protect our hand in this 10 bet pot.

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Protect it from what?

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We have aces up, sure, but a gutshot will have odds to chase if we do not raise.

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Again it's .05/.10 so I'm probably wrong, but a gut shot is usually pretty rare here.

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Perhaps it is a raise for value. Can we quantify that?

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But were just pushing opponents off of hands that are drawing almost dead.

[imported_leader]

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I don't get the flop raise. What do you want other players to fold here? They aren't folding a flush draw. Like 23 or 34? I'd rather call and see the turn. Given those two cards I'd probably call down as opposed to raising as some point.

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It doesn't matter if they'll fold or not but I'd much rather they pay 2-bets with whatever they're drawing with. The flop raise is for value.

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My point is that we don't want them to fold. We want them to call drawing to runner-runner trips. It's .05/.10 I guess. So maybe it's irrelevant.

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But by not raising, you are giving them correct odds to call at 12:1 and increasing w/ each caller.

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There are only two hands that that effects 34/23.

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BTW, what is MUBS?

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Monsters Under the Bed Syndrome.

[shant]

There's a diamond draw on the flop. You can't really "protect" your hand, but you could get them to put in more bets when they're drawing against your hand.

Also, a gutshot is certainly possible. A hand like 33 or 44 has 6 outs against you.

Folding on the turn based on a read of 15 hands is bad IMO.

[Felipe]

:leader:
so what you're saying is call and let them chase air? Because raising gets them out and we want them in donating money?

That may see good if the pot was smaller, 10 bets is looking pretty sizable to me. If my raise will improve my percent change to win this pot, why not do it?

[Felipe]

:SHANT:

Are you saying we call the turn and river?

[shant]

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:SHANT:

Are you saying we call the turn and river?

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Once the turn is HU and he donkbets, 15 hands is not enough of a read for me to fold because I have seen 99 or 5x or flush draws pushed like this.

[imported_leader]

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There's a diamond draw on the flop. You can't really "protect" your hand, but you could get them to put in more bets when they're drawing against your hand.

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I think you make more by letting people with 0-2 outs come along then you make by charging a flush draw one more SB. Plus if BB's on a bluff you let him keep betting at it.

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Also, a gutshot is certainly possible. A hand like 33 or 44 has 6 outs against you.

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Really? The flop is AA5.

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Folding on the turn based on a read of 15 hands is bad IMO.

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I'm not folding this. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[milesdyson]

i agree with everyone saying calling the flop is the best move. although this is .05/.10 so it's true that raising could be for value if they'll call with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 or J9 or crap like that here.

calling the flop here is the same as calling the flop in a multiway pot with AA in early position when the small blind leads a 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] flop. the only difference between these two types of hands is that i would never raise in the KK hand, but i would raise in the AA hand.

[imported_leader]

Because it doesn't improve our chances of winning be enough to give up those calls. Sure one of them might runner runner trips. But we make far more when he doesn't. Note that we don't even have to worry about 2 pair here since we already have the nut 2 pair.