DERB - Page 13

Nigel · #1 11-04-2005, 03:40 PM

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Maybe he is a marginal winner, but the supposition that he is the biggest winner in the game(expectation wise) is just absurd. It's also slightly absurd that his biggest advocates are people who have played virtually no hands against him.

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James,

As someone who as played a large number of hands against him, and someone who has gone on record as not seeing any genius in his post flop play, I would hardly say that I am an "advocate" of his.

However, as Brad pointed out, and I think many other people feel, there has to be something to be learned from his style. His success seems to be reasonably well documented, and when I sit on the 50/100's for 4-5 hours I notice almost all "pros" (most of whom I know see playing 20/40 or 30/60 because I assume they are breaking even at best) floundering between 1500 and 3500 in chips, all day. You glance at DERB's chip stacks and he's sitting with like 8k, 6k, 4k, and 10k - it's simply ridiculous. On the surface he appears to be doing something that the 16/12/2.5 style just can't (as in, literally impossible) do, regardless of how well you play post flop. It seems that his opponents are either unwilling to adapt to his style, or completely unable to exploit it.

I am hoping you'll elaborate more on the above and explain why you think he is only a marginal winner. You deny that what he is doing is working? You may indeed be correct, but I just don't see it.

Thanks,

Nigel

kidcolin · #2 11-04-2005, 03:55 PM

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It's also slightly absurd that his biggest advocates are people who have played virtually no hands against him.

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This isn't true. They have the least biased opinion and can evaluate his numbers freely. They aren't conditioned to believe he is a loser simply because he capped middle pair on the turn a few times against them.

Note: I'm not accusing you of having a clouded view of this. I just wanted to clear up the above fallacy.

Ulysses · #3 11-04-2005, 05:45 PM

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I have played a lot of poker though. The idea that there is a single winning style of play is false beyond reason. The fact that people can't even understand that players like DERB exist and win, and win a lot, goes a long way in illustrating how little some people know about poker.

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There isn't a single winning style of play. There are, however, several losing styles of play. His is one of them. Maybe he is a marginal winner, but the supposition that he is the biggest winner in the game(expectation wise) is just absurd. It's also slightly absurd that his biggest advocates are people who have played virtually no hands against him.
-James

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I am not an advocate of DERB's, and have barely read the threads around him, nor have ever played against him, so I have no idea how big a winner he is.

I was just agreeing w/ Andrew's general comment re: the attitude of a number of posters across these forums.

Khern · #4 11-04-2005, 05:02 AM

Thank you.

I have figured that there is more than one succesfull playing style. I thought maybe you had some insight as to the specifics. Not finding any, I'm much more motivation to consider it myself(whether or not I'm capable of producing anything useful).

John

Enon · #5 11-04-2005, 05:05 AM

In my previous post where I listed some Derb hands, I just viewed his biggest pots on down to find interesting ones. This time I looked through his losing hands.

Derb - BB

Party Poker 100.00/200.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop:
2 folds, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3.00 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, MP2 raises, SB folds, BB 3-bets, MP2 caps, BB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, MP2 raises, BB 3-bets, MP2 caps, BB calls.

River: (13.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, MP2 bets, BB calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB.
Results in white below:
MP2 has 3c 4c (a full house, Fours full of threes.)
BB has 7c 6c (two pairs, sevens and fours.)
MP2 wins 15.48 BB.


Derb - UTG+1

Party Poker 100.00/200.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop:
1 folds, UTG+1 raises, 3 folds, CO 3-bets, Button caps, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (13.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, CO bets, Button raises, UTG+1 calls, CO 3-bets, Button calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (11.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 bets, CO raises, Button 3-bets, UTG+1 caps, CO calls, Button calls.

River: (23.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 23.25 BB.
Results in white below:
UTG+1 has Jd Ac (a pair of jacks.)
CO has Jh Js (three of a kind, jacks.)
Button has Qh Th (a straight, nine to king.)
Button wins 23.23 BB.


Derb - SB

Party Poker 100.00/200.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop:
8 folds, SB raises, BB calls.

Flop: (4.00 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3.00 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, BB raises, SB 3-bets, BB caps, SB calls.

River: (11.00 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, BB bets, SB calls.

Final Pot: 13.00 BB.
Results in white below:
BB has 8s Ks (a flush, ace high.)
SB has Ad 5s (two pairs, aces and threes.)
BB wins 12.98 BB.


Derb - UTG, Lakerman - BB

Party Poker 100.00/200.00 Hold'em (8 handed) link

Preflop:
UTG raises, 5 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, BB raises, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, UTG calls.

River: (6.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, UTG raises, BB 3-bets, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 12.25 BB.
Results in white below:
BB has Td Th (a full house, Tens full of eights.)
UTG has Jh Jd (two pairs, jacks and eights.)
BB wins 12.23 BB.


Derb - MP2

Party Poker 100.00/200.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop:
UTG calls, 1 folds, MP2 calls, 4 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (3.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, MP2 calls, BB folds.

Turn: (2.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, MP2 raises, UTG 3-bets, MP2 caps, UTG calls.

River: (10.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, MP2 checks.

Final Pot: 10.75 BB.
Results in white below:
UTG has 6d 6s (two pairs, eights and sixes.)
MP2 has 5c 4c (two pairs, eights and fours.)
UTG wins 10.73 BB.

mmcd · #6 11-04-2005, 06:24 AM

This link looks like it got lost in the thread since no one commented on it. Interesting to say the least.

thejameser · #7 11-04-2005, 10:22 AM

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This link looks like it got lost in the thread since no one commented on it. Interesting to say the least.

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interesting b/c Andy Prock is a member?

BradL · #8 11-04-2005, 10:32 AM

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interesting b/c Andy Prock is a member?

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mmcd · #9 11-04-2005, 11:09 AM

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interesting b/c Andy Prock is a member?

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Interesting because DERB is likely a product of this "think tank" and that's a pretty damn distinguished member list.

BradL · #10 11-04-2005, 11:57 AM

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Interesting because DERB is likely a product of this "think tank"

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I said this in an earlier post.

-Brad