No Pre Flop Play Analysis Please

Buccaneer · #1 12-05-2005, 06:29 PM

Please lets not get off on the pre flop aspects of this hand. I respect the posters here and hope they respect that I can read a chart. I know it never should have been played. I did not miss click or other wise get myself into this hand accidentally. I played it on purpose. So I need no info about how it should have been mucked. Please do not even go there.

On the flop, I have middle pair so I call. I do not really concern myself with the A other than note it. No need yet to pee my pants over it yet. If I do fold then any ace on the flop is going to encourage bluffs and semibluffs until I leave the game. Do you agree or disagree?

On the turn, I have two pair, not the top two but they are somewhat hidden. I decide that I probably have the best hand and I can still improve to a FH. I raise UTG. My opponents then procede to call. I see no REAL strength from my opponents at this time and I can only give them credit for an Ax which I can not believe they have hit. I stand by my play and think that my thought process is proper. Do you agree or disagree?

The river, like all rivers seems to hit the drawers. This is .50/1 so we know that the river is going to be the worst card for someone trying to play well and the best card for someone that is playing any two. It is checked to me so I check because I know that I did not improve and that they probably did. Also only one can fold and he has proved his reluctance to fold. So did I play it right or not. The check had to be a Christmas gift to me, right?

What would you guys play to the river like the villian(s) did.

Party Poker 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (9 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP1 calls, 1 folds, Hero calls, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5.00 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls, SB folds, BB folds.

Turn: (4.00 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, MP1 calls, Hero raises, UTG is all-in ($0.50), MP1 calls.

River: (9.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players, 1 all-in)
MP1 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB.

macdaddy991 · #2 12-05-2005, 06:37 PM

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you seem pretty happy with your play, You are more interested in what the other players were doing in the hand. FWIW I'm not gonna comment PF, but avioding these hands makes post flop decisions easier. Also you should consider that UTG is stacking off since he went all in on the turn. Nice post flop hand, hope you didn't get counterfitted.

Buccaneer · #3 12-05-2005, 06:47 PM

I don't think you are being a jerk. To be honest I do not know if I am happy with my play or not, I really am looking for input so I can decide if I suck with no hope or suck with a chance to improve to no suck. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

FWIW I played the hand for opportunities to be in a situation like this. I don't think that there is a lot of difference in playing the hand I did coupled with the flop I got and playing KQ with a flop and turn that gave me two pair. Trust me three aces would have found me no matter what I played.

I did consider the fact that UTG might be racking off. In fact UTG had just lost a big hand so I considered it strongly.

Thanks for your comments.

jrz1972 · #4 12-05-2005, 07:00 PM

Preflop: Fold.
Flop: Fold.
Turn: Fine.
River: Bet with the intention of folding to a raise.

Buccaneer · #5 12-05-2005, 07:20 PM

With over 2000 post I would have thought that you could understand what it means when someone request that you not comment on the preflop play on a hand.

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

tyler_cracker · #6 12-05-2005, 07:20 PM

Fold the flop. You're getting 7:1 with the blinds left to act behind you, the T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] are dirty, and your implied odds are reduced by Villain's short stack.

Turn is great.

On the river, value bet second pair, particularly because it is easy to fold to a check/raise.

jrz1972 · #7 12-05-2005, 07:23 PM

Sorry. If you don't want people to comment on your play, I recommend that you just not post the hand.

bottomset · #8 12-05-2005, 07:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry. If you don't want people to comment on your play, I recommend that you just not post the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this

I don't think preflop is bad, its a clear limp with T9s, fine with T8s but I think the 2gap is a little much .. but overally you aren't losing much limping here, OTB I'd limp this hand, so its not bad

the flop call is close again, but ok

turn is good

river check is good, because its HU in a dry sidepot and you got counterfeited, its hard to see what MP calls with that you beat

Shillx · #9 12-05-2005, 07:49 PM

I respect the posters here and hope they respect that I can read a chart. I know it never should have been played. I did not miss click or other wise get myself into this hand accidentally. I played it on purpose. So I need no info about how it should have been mucked. Please do not even go there.

The flop call is more questionable then the preflop call IMHO. You are going to flop something that will be seeing the river about 19% of the time with this hand. This hand is worth a play getting 4:1 preflop though the rake does factor into this somewhat. So mabye I want 5:1 with a large rake structure, but you will often get that by limping in this spot. Another thing to consider is that this hand plays better when the stacks are deep. With someone on the brink of going all-in, it pushes it to a fold preflop getting just an expected 4:1 or 5:1 (depending on the rake).

There look to be only two ways to play this hand postflop (fold the flop or peel). Again with the guy going all-in, drawing to 2nd pair becomes a lot more sketch. You want to have people around to payoff when you hit, and you really don't have that here. Calling the flop is a small mistake IMHO. Turn and river are perfect.

Brad

Edit - It is pretty bad to say that preflop play isn't important in this hand. In fact, this hand illustrates some very important preflop concepts that should certainly be addressed.

Greg J · #10 12-05-2005, 07:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
With over 2000 post I would have thought that you could understand what it means when someone request that you not comment on the preflop play on a hand.

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]
1) Fold preflop.
2) Stop being a jackass.

EDIT to add: Oh, and fold preflop.