Flopped set, and a nightmare appears

[4_2_it]

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For the people saying limp 88, I would have limped full ring. Would you still limp it in 6-max?

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It depends on table conditions. Sometimes I raise (especially when I can outplay my opponents post-flop or the table is weak tight and I can bluff any Broadway flop), but OOP it is usually a limp and play for set value. I don't think you lose much value either way.

[Black Aces 518]

Table was pretty much as you described. I won a pot earlier with 88 by betting the A-T-5 flop and later had 99 and bet the AJ4 flop. Opponent called. He then checked the turn, and I checked behind. He checked the river despite my turn check, and tables KT. MHIG. So that's why I raised here. Seems like we're on about the same wavelength there.

Sorry if some of these questions seem basic, I mainly play limit cash and NL MTTs.

[4_2_it]

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Table was pretty much as you described. I won a pot earlier with 88 by betting the A-T-5 flop and later had 99 and bet the AJ4 flop. Opponent called. He then checked the turn, and I checked behind. He checked the river despite my turn check, and tables KT. MHIG. So that's why I raised here. Seems like we're on about the same wavelength there.

Sorry if some of these questions seem basic, I mainly play limit cash and NL MTTs.

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Don't apologize and how to play 88 in 6-max is not a basic level question. Keep posting.

[The_Bends]

My advice depends on how strong your preflop AA/KK read is. If thats for definate then clearly check/calling the turn and river is the best solution because it gets the max from KK/loses the least to AA.

If you read is not solid then bet the turn for $30 and put the final $30 in on the river. With a set on this kind of board all I want is all the money in. Betting half your stack twice gives the villian the easiest route to getting his whole stack in the middle.

You see AK/AQ/KK often enough to make money here.

[Black Aces 518]

Thanks for all the help. I feel pretty good about preflop at this point. I think at this point a better line on the flop is to try and lead/3bet. I was fixated on the raiser and wasn't thinking hard enough about the other guy coming along. If the raiser checks AK and the other guy gets a free card with something like JT or KhTh, that is bad. Also lead/3 betting gives me a better chance of getting it all in the middle on the flop and avoiding situations like the turn.

As played, I think check-calling the turn would be best. At the time I pushed the turn, not wanting a free card for AhKh, knowing villain would call (incorrectly, ToP-wise) with this hand. But the chances of AhKh checking this turn behind are remote at best, right? So I could either call the push or push over the bet. I think not losing KK is a more important consideration, so check-calling or check-pushing is a better turn line than my push.

[Sifmole]

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My first instinct in this hand is to berate you for all kinds of imagined monsters, but I think we'd all like to lose less pots with set under set.

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Really? Think of the value you would be giving up trying to implement a strategy to accomplish this.

BTW - I am 90% sure you were being tongue-in-cheek, but I thought I'd reply just in case [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Am I the only person here that can COUNT w/ 100% certainty on losing at least 2 set over sets or boat over boats per 800 hands ( one night's play )? BTW I am not kidding, I could prove it by sending last 30 days of PT data.

[4_2_it]

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My first instinct in this hand is to berate you for all kinds of imagined monsters, but I think we'd all like to lose less pots with set under set.

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Really? Think of the value you would be giving up trying to implement a strategy to accomplish this.

BTW - I am 90% sure you were being tongue-in-cheek, but I thought I'd reply just in case [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Am I the only person here that can COUNT w/ 100% certainty on losing at least 2 set over sets or boat over boats per 800 hands ( one night's play )? BTW I am not kidding, I could prove it by sending last 30 days of PT data.

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That's seems quite high. I have gone 1,000's of hands without losing set over set and have had it happen twice in 4 hands at the same table. Somebody who is smarter than me can run this through Pokerstove and give you the exact probabilities, but I think you lose to straights, flushes and higher boats on paired boards more often than just pure set over set.

[Black Aces 518]

Thanks to everyone again for the help. The experience and increased competence discussions like this give are much more valuable than winning or losing an individual pot.

As I said, I pushed the turn. He took about 5 seconds to call, which made me jump with glee. River was a brick, my 88 flips up and as I pray for his avatar to switch to the delicious "Muck", instead AA pop up. That's OK, I'll play it better next time (not that any way of playing this that doesn't suck saves me in this scenario).