Commerce 10-20 NL Hand 1 of 3

[Ulysses]

I think these get a little tougher and hopefully more interesting....

Background: Opponent in this hand is horrible and has overplayed a number of hands. I've played two hands against him already and watched a third.

Hand 1: We both have about 1000. 100 unraised pot. Flop Ah9c2h. He bets 60. I make it 300 w/ Kh9h. He tanks for a while then folds A8o face-up.

Hand 2: We both have about 1200. Excellent player opens UTG for 40. I call in MP w/ 88. He and BB call. Flop is Q47r. Checked to me, I bet 120. He calls, BB and UTG fold. Turn is a deuce. He checks, I check. River is an 8. He bets 500, I push, he looks like he wants to throw up and folds.

Hand 3: He raises to 80 pre-flop, gets 1 caller. Flop is ragged w/ two clubs and it goes check-check. Turn is the Ace of clubs. He checks, opponent bets 150, he pushes for about 500 total. Opponent has AK w/ King of clubs. He has read AQ and finds a non-club Q on the river - yahoo!

OK, the hand....

I have a lot. He has about 800.

I open in EP for 60 w/ black JJ. He calls and one of the blinds (very good player) calls. Flop is 78T w/ a club draw. BB checks. I bet 200. He insta-pushes for about 500 more. Back to me. Easy call?

[Ulysses]

Bad player calls in LP pre-flop and pushes on the flop. Good player in the blind folds on the flop.

[sniperd]

From what you have wrote, I am guessing he is steaming pretty good here. Easy call for me with JJ. I would have to put this guy on a T. Unless he has self control to try and smooth call pre with a bigger overpair only to be able to shove a flop, then I think your good.

[turnipmonster]

thanks for posting these hands, always nice to have some hands from live games.

in the hand, there's 880 in the pot, and it's 500 more to you. you are getting a little worse than 2 to 1 on a call, and you are:

better than a 2 to 1 dog against bottom two pair
something like 5.5 to 1 against bottom straight
about a 5.5 to 1 favorite against AT
about 4 to 1 dog on any set
a 2 to 1 favorite over a flush draw
a 2 to 1 favorite over 9 T

(I ruled out QQ-AA because most players will reraise you with those. slight chance he has QQ)

obviously if he could have any of these, you should probably fold. but if you can make some sort of read, you may have a very easy call.

my initial gut response was, easy call, there's no hand I'll bet 200 with and then fold for 500 more. after trying to put him on a hand though, there are quite a few things out there you can't beat. nevertheless, I think he is much more likely to checkraise allin with a club draw or something like 9T than a made hand like a straight. so for all those reasons, I vote easy call.

--turnipmonster

[Ulysses]

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obviously if he could have any of these, you should probably fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you say that? I haven't done the math, but given the range of hands you listed and the price I'm getting, wouldn't it seem pretty close even if you can limit him to the range of hands you listed (note that he could easily have other one pair hands as well, but ignore that for now)?

[ QUOTE ]
but if you can make some sort of read, you may have a very easy call.

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This guy was terrible and called lots of raises. The only read I had was that he had overplayed a couple of hands previously and I had raised him out of pots a couple of times.

[ QUOTE ]
my initial gut response was, easy call

[/ QUOTE ]

When I told this hand to Sucker he instantly said call. I for some reason thought it was very close and tanked for a while before making my decision.

[ QUOTE ]
nevertheless, I think he is much more likely to checkraise allin with a club draw or something like 9T

[/ QUOTE ]

As in all my posts, pronoun issues again. This guy cold-called pre-flop behind me, so it was a raise, not a checkraise.

[turnipmonster]

[ QUOTE ]

Why do you say that? I haven't done the math, but given the range of hands you listed and the price I'm getting, wouldn't it seem pretty close even if you can limit him to the range of hands you listed (note that he could easily have other one pair hands as well, but ignore that for now)?


[/ QUOTE ]

yes, you're right it is very close. I said you should probably fold because when I posted my response I hadn't had any coffee yet, and I am very cautious about everything before I've had coffee.

against a normal sort of average NL player I think it's fairly close, maybe I lean slightly towards calling. against a guy as bad as you describe, I lean strongly towards calling. if you don't think he's capable of raising allin on a draw, I think folding is ok. I sure as hell wouldn't lose sleep over it.

nice new name.

--turnipmonster

[ML4L]

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Easy call?

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No need to rehash everything that turnip said. Just wanted to put in my vote for yes. What would be interesting is if he raised 500 and had 1200 left behind...

ML4L

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]

No need to rehash everything that turnip said. Just wanted to put in my vote for yes. What would be interesting is if he raised 500 and had 1200 left behind...


[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh. I agree.

OK, go look at Hands 2 and 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ulysses]

I thought about it a little while. I figured a few things here:

a) I felt like this guy might be more likely to try and trap w/ a monster like a set or straight here.

b) I thought he might be getting a little mad at me for raising him so much.

c) I thought he might be making a move v. my "AK" here.

d) I really thought he'd love a hand like AT here and that was the kind of hand he was cold-calling w/ pre-flop.

So, after thinking a little, I called, putting him on AT as his most likely hand.

Turn was an Ace. Ugh. River was a Queen. Then, nobody does anything for a few seconds. The player in between us, a tough player (guy in Hand 2 w/ huge stack) says "OK, first guy to turn over wins." My opponent decides to give it a shot and turns over KT. Close. Then he went home. Ugh.

[The Gift Of Gab]

i would beat him into the pot. you'll often see something like 97 here too, which is in deep [censored].