Something about this hand is bugging me, but I can't see it. JTo - Page 2

hate · #11 04-05-2005, 10:12 PM

So what do you advocate on the flop? Folding a double gutshot because there are two spades on the flop seems pretty weak-tight.

Megenoita · #12 04-05-2005, 11:38 PM

I think calling or raising the flop is about the same, with raising being an interesting and possibly better play. Can't fold, that's for sure.

PF, like most others say, it's a definite fold.

Trainwreck · #13 04-06-2005, 12:00 AM

3-Betting a double gut shot is std? LOL!

Not following through on the turn is another error besides playing JTo trash in the first place.

>TW<

cockandbull · #14 04-06-2005, 12:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
with raising being an interesting and possibly better play. Can't fold, that's for sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you don't then the turn may go bet, raise and then what do you do. imo only a selected range of hands will lead the turn once raised and three bet.

do you disagree?

JoshuaD · #15 04-06-2005, 12:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
3-Betting a double gut shot is std? LOL!

Not following through on the turn is another error besides playing JTo trash in the first place.

>TW<

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

Megenoita · #16 04-06-2005, 12:24 AM

Hey c-andbull,

In the event that you just call and the turn is bet and raised (which I think is very unlikely; I think it would be bet, but not raised in front of you), you would call, getting the odds to do so.

I do think 3 betting this is the best option, but I also think it's decently close to just calling because of the 17% of the time where you hit your card on the turn and are bet into (and thus can raise) after you just called the flop.

I'm not sure how much of the time the turn will be checked through and the river NOT bet into you, because if the river will be bet just about every time that you check it throug on the turn, then the 17% of the time you hit then, you get the same kind of raise in, so 3 betting would be clearly better on the flop saving about a full SB.

M

Trainwreck · #17 04-06-2005, 12:32 AM

1 word responses are worthless and confusing.

>TW<

CallMeIshmael · #18 04-06-2005, 12:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
1 word responses are worthless and confusing.

>TW<

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll expand.

You have 8 outs to a straight, and 2 outs to trips. (T might be good as well).

They are giving you a free card.

You dont have the best hand

Betting is not OK. And its not close.

Megenoita · #19 04-06-2005, 12:41 AM

Expanding on Ish's statement, and to make it simple, if you have 10 outs as Ish said, then you have 10/46 = 21.7% equity. If you bet for value, you need to be betting no greater of a % of the bets than that. Betting the turn against two other players is 33%. If a couple more guys were in the pot AND would definitely call (and hopefully not raise), then you could value bet the turn. You just don't own enough of the pot to do so now.

M

hate · #20 04-06-2005, 01:59 AM

Not following through? Do you understand the reason why I'm 3-betting the flop, because it seems a pretty interesting play and possibly the best option. Why would I ever be following through on the turn? I just improved to perhaps second best. Ishmael will explain with lengthy diagrams, but you've been giving a lot of shitty advice in the past few days and disregarding a lot of good advice people have been giving you.