K8o SB

ReadyEddie · #1 11-17-2005, 01:33 PM

Party Poker 2.00/4.00 Hold'em (10 handed) link

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 7 folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3.00 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (2.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB.

Villain is a TAG a little too passive, but decent PF stats, 15/8 over 169 hands.

comments?

Any suggestions on PF I a bit confused about what hands i should be playing from the SB for high card value when it comes back to me 3 handed like this.

silkyslim · #2 11-17-2005, 01:39 PM

hmm this is kinda hard. i want to fold preflop. i kind of want to fold to the turn raise because hes passive . nice river

krimson · #3 11-17-2005, 01:41 PM

I'm slightly concerned with KQo after he delays a raise till the turn, but I think KJ/KT fits your pre-flop read of him a bit better. Nicely played.

thirddan · #4 11-17-2005, 01:49 PM

i think the complete is ok given that you are in a 1/2 blind stucture, in a 1/3 i would probaby fold...

i think the turn is a fold...given your read of villain as a little passive i think you are gonna be beat here and don't have the odds to try and outdraw him...his likely hands are KT/KJ/KQ/44/55...a hand like JTs is possible, but a passive players probably isn't semi-bluffing the turn...

his line of call the flop/raise the turn indicated a somewhat stronger hand than normal, likely a big K or a set here...

paperboyNC · #5 11-17-2005, 01:57 PM

I'll just comment about the river. Obviously we have spoilers here that the villian didn't 3bet the river, but it doesn't mean you won the hand as he was likely scared of the flush.

The likely hands you are ahead of are:
AK, KJ, AA, K4s, K5s

The likely hands you are behind:
KQ, 44, 55, (more unlikely KK or QQ).

I'd just call this river.

SenecaJim · #6 11-17-2005, 01:58 PM

Complete ok in an unraised pot like this. I do ( i'm over 1/2 in my normal game sb). I always hate these damn hands though. You either swim for the river like a big fish or , even with great reads, folding top pair just plain out sucks. gotta be one of those least favorite things about poker, heh?

charlie_t_jr · #7 11-17-2005, 01:59 PM

I would've folded preflop. If you're going to play it, raise preflop and try and drive BB out.

#8 11-17-2005, 02:21 PM

I'm probably folding preflop here. The SB is roughly the same as late position to me for half a bet, the tradeoff being you're out of position the whole way after that. I especially look to get away from a one high card unsuited hand like yours. You will be dominated way more often playing this hand than not.

The OP comment about popping if you're going to play is also correct with a hand like this IMO. Since you read villain as a slightly more passive than standard TAG, it is unlikely he has drawing cards as opposed to high cards from UTG. I would be looking to knock the BB out in case he might have a drawing hand that would compete against your hand,as you would hate to spike two pair and lose to a straight or flush made by the board 8.

My line on this particular hand preflop/flop would probably have been WA/WB. If he doesn't have a K, you're gold, if he does you're screwed without your miracle two out river catch. Out of position, this could get real expensive, so I think you're looking at:
- raise pf to get rid of BB
- c/c flop and turn
- bet/fold or bet/call depending on river card (in this case bet/call as you did pair your sidecard)

One other thought - it wouldn't shock me at all as you characterized villain if he were sneaking in on AK which is where his aggression is coming form...

nam

olavfo · #9 11-17-2005, 02:41 PM

Preflop:

If you can play top pair + weak kicker well postflop you should be able to play K8o for profit from the SB (I usually muck it though).

Postflop:

With your reads on Villain, I would strongly consider folding to his turn raise. We must assume Villain can beat your pair of kings the vast majority of the time. The pot is small (you get 5.50 : 1 on your call) and you're frequently dominated and drawing to only 3 outs.

Also consider your effective odds. If you plan to call the raise and check-call the river unimproved, you invest 2 BB to win 6.50 (the 5.50 in the pot when you call + one more BB from Villain on the river), so your effective pot odds are 6.50 : 2 = 3.25 : 1.

So you need your hand to hold up more than 1/(3.25 + 1) = 0.24 = 24% of the time when you call down uinimproved. This seems unlikely when you're up against a TAG.

pokernicus · #10 11-17-2005, 03:59 PM

1. I probably just fold this preflop - especially since the only person entering this pot is UTG so must have some type of hand. With these weak off-suit hands, you are looking for a pot with few players (since you have no good draw possibilities), so I think it's a raise-or-fold situation (to at least drive out the big blind and get heads up). In this case, I don't think K8o is good enough to play here, but with a slightly better hand, I might just raise this.

2. Given your comment that UTG is too passive, I probably fold to the turn raise -- this pot is too small and you are essentially commiting yourself to calling one more bet on the river bet even if unimproved. I am also not a big fan of the river raise. If his delayed turn raise represents that he can beat top pair, I would put him on KQo or maybe even a remote possibility of an AA (on a failed limp-re-raise preflop -- though this does indeed seem remote).