Another limping middle pairs in stud8 hand

[bigredlemon]

7 Card Stud High-Low ($0.50/$1.00), Ante $0.05, Bring-In $0.25 (hand converter)

3rd Street - (0.80 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in
Seat 3: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds

A field of low, no aces out, and all my cards are live. My pair is hidden, and slightly better than tens! Since greenage's HH caused so much controversy, how about my limp here?


4th Street - (3.80 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 2: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Hero: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets

Jackpot! (I've been saving up for that pun)

Do I risk a free card or bet out? I'm fairly confident at least one of the people behind me hit a 4low and will bet, but I didn't want to risk a free card. I was also hoping to be raised by a low to kick out the bricks, and I'd be able to 3bet.

5th Street - (4.40 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 5: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Hero: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets

Clear bet.

6th Street - (8.40 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets___raises
Hero: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises___calls

Do I cap or not?
He probably doesn't have a hand that beats me but sure likes his hand, and I'm certainly playing for half the pot. Seat 6 could have some kind of draw against me as well.


River - (17.40 BB)

Seat 5: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] xx___?
Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___bets
Hero: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls

Hoping for an overcall here.





Bonus question:
River - (22.40 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___all-in
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___bets___raises___calls
Hero: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises___raises

Total pot: 30.40 BB

I've lead the action every street, with 5th and 6th capped by me and seat 6. Do I cap the river or try to cheap out on the rake by flat calling his 3bet? The rake is already maxed in this example, but less pretend there's another 1/4BB or 1/2BB rake if the pot exceeds 30BB.

[arcticfox]

In the first hand I like the limp on 3rd given the number of callers as you are getting the odds to hit trips or two pair on 4th and you may be able to see 5th cheaply too if the table is playing passively.

On 4th I bet too, the bring-in may have nothing so you are relying on the 3 7 hand to bet and I'd rather start getting the pot bigger now than tale the risk that he doesn't bet.

On 6th I cap, he may well have a flush draw so getting him to fold is in your interests and as a favourite for your half of the pot you want more money in there.

The river I play the same. Question for you - what do you do if 6 8 T Q raises and 6 reraises? Its a crying call I think but would be fairly sure he had made his flush or straight but the pot is big enough to hope that he is reraising with smaller trips or 2 pair.

On the bonus river I always cap, the chances that he has a full house, a spade flush or trips rather than the low makes it worth the risk of the additional rake.

[bigredlemon]

on 6th, since the flush draw called two bets cold, he's definetly not folding to two more. If I bet, it has to be for value. I'm putting in one bet to win half a bet. I need to be at least a 2-1 favourite against everyone for the high half to cap. Since there was a small chance seat 6 boated up, I decided to play it safe and just call the 3bet.

According to twodimes:

I have only 0.366 pot equity if:
seat 6 has low + gut straight draw
seat 5 has 9s + useless card


I have only 0.388 pot equity if:
seat 6 has low + no high draws
seat 5 has 9s + useless card


I have only 0.410 pot equity if:
seat 6 has low + no high draws
seat 5 has one spade + no other high draw

So I definetly should have capped. Even in the first example I'm 4-1 to win the high half.



If seat 5 raises, seat 6 will certainly 3bet, so I'll be looking at 4 losing bets if I'm beat, and winning (3*3 + 17.40)/2= 13.2BB if my hand holds up. So I only need to be right 1/4th of the time to make calling correct. (If seat 6 flat calls the raise and it's just one more to me, I'm calling it here 100% of the time. But I doubt it.)

The players I was against were loose but not stupid. seat 5 isn't going to raise with a 86 low. He is very unlikely to raise with two pair lower than queens as well. three 6 and 2 8 are acccounted for so isn't likely to have low trips either. The only reasonable hand he can have that I beat is trip tens and aces up. While that doesn't seem very likely, I don't think it's more than 3 times as unlikely as 9J for the straight of two spades for the flush, so I'd have to make a crying call.

Now suppose seat 5 hits an 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on 6th. Do I still have the odds to call a 3bet on the river? (Presume he played all other streets the same.)

Seat 5: xx xx 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] xx __raises
Seat 6: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx __Bets __3bets
Hero: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] __calls __?

[Wolffink]

I fold on third. I suppose it's okay seeing if you hit something quick and the lows bomb out. But like many on here, I hate playing pairs with several lows out.

Fourth street betting is okay, but it'd sure be nice if a low bet out and you raised. It might be worth taking this chance since there is more than one low out.

Sixth street I probably don't cap unless I have a full boat here.

Calling is right on seventh--the other hand if he has a flush draw will fold if he missed it, raise if he got it.

BONUS QUESTION

The rake saving is miniscule. If I have to think about it, then I go ahead and bet/raise/cap it. If he had 4 cards to a low down, I'd just call it.

If you catch him one time out of 10 with his pants down, you more than make up for the rake action.

[mscags]

I guess the limp on third is alright because your hand is hidden. But what if you catch a queen? What if you miss and all the lows miss as well? Do you bet, check call? There is such a small ante I think I lean towards folding this more often than not. I just find it too difficult to play against a large field when I don't hit the "Jackpot".