PLO8 $100 hand

[Wolffink]

I dont agree with the above posters who say pot the flop.

I say wait until the turn.

There's already a sizeable bet made. Call and see if other players follow. On the turn if it comes favorable pot it.

Although Hero is a favorite on the flop if the turn comes low, say a plain 8c, Hero becomes a dog. Then what do you do? The same arguments about getting away from the hand goes two ways when one card can drastically change the evaluation.

Also, waiting until the turn with two low cards when you have trips is the same POV that's recommended in SS2. I dont think potting the flop is bad, but waiting is better.

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I dont agree with the above posters who say pot the flop.

I say wait until the turn.

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I agree this is best line. I don't always do it though.

[Wolffink]

I just happen to be reading a Ribbo hand on his website: ribbo.com he says something similar on his hand #3 (agreed 3 low cards had hit):


"I know its hard. But when you flop top set, there will be times you should fold it immediately. This is one of those times. Nobody raises preflop allowing the players to see a flop of A36. This is an easy check and fold for AA should the betting get frisky. But you see, people don't think like that. They get this idea into their head that they somehow have the best hand. They don't, not once low has hit.
........
Secondly you should be checking AA on that flop until the board pairs, at which point you can be aggressive with your raising, hoping to catch someone with a lower full house, two people with the same low or by making the low player fold his non nut low hand for fear of getting nothing. Get your money in while you have the best hand!"

So I think it is not so clear-cut to raise on the flop with two cards to come. I prefer raising on the turn with one card to come.

That's all sounds advice. With two-to-a-low, set of aces can raise sometimes. For example, I will usually do it if I have any low draw to go along, or if I'm short-stacked and so committed anyway. But generally, I think the best line w/ any set on a draw heavy flop is to lay in the weeds, and get active on safe turn.

[jthegreat]

The only mistake I really think I made here was not checking behind on the turn. I really didn't have much to lose by doing that. I'm torn on calling/raising the flop. Equity-wise, raising is fine, but only if you don't make a big mistake like I did on the turn ("mistake" from a Fund. Theory of Poker perspective). So waiting on a safe turn is probably the better play since a mistake will generally cost you less.

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The only mistake I really think I made here was not checking behind on the turn. I really didn't have much to lose by doing that. I'm torn on calling/raising the flop. Equity-wise, raising is fine, but only if you don't make a big mistake like I did on the turn ("mistake" from a Fund. Theory of Poker perspective). So waiting on a safe turn is probably the better play since a mistake will generally cost you less.

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Yeah, the bigger mistake was definitely betting the turn. However, I'm not sure that raising the flop is correct "equity-wise". (Can you explain what you mean?) Twodimes won't work here because you're not all-in. You'd have to count the number of turn cards that you'll feel safe betting, multiply that by your win% with those cards, and then count all the other turn cards as zeros, assuming you'll have to fold to any action they bring. Raising prob isn't equity-wise correct IMO

[gergery]

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I dont agree with the above posters who say pot the flop.

I say wait until the turn.

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I agree this is best line. I don't always do it though.

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I think OOP waiting til the turn to go heavy is better, but in position I think betting the flop is probably better.

-g

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I dont agree with the above posters who say pot the flop.

I say wait until the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree this is best line. I don't always do it though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think OOP waiting til the turn to go heavy is better, but in position I think betting the flop is probably better.

-g

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Reasons? I presume to hopefully buy a freecard if the turn doesn't cooperate?

[gergery]

Because you have good equity vs. almost any other hand here. And with position you can use it. There are many cards that scare you – but almost as many will scare your opponent.

And yes, I'd always check that turn

-g

Well, you have good equity, but I'm not sure you can really use all of it. For example, suppose you're a coinflip with some sort of wrap low. If the low arrives on the turn, you're in deep sh!t, can't call a bet from OOP if he's aware enough to realize he needs to fire out *in case* you were buying a free card on the flop. So you're not going to get to cash in on the equity you "flopped" in situations where the low arrives on turn but board pairs on riv.

On the flipside, if the low does not arrive on the turn, a wrap-low draw can still check-call; even if the board pairs, giving you lock on high, it would certainly be "more correct" for a low draw to check-call than it would for your set aces of aces to call an OOP bet on a wheel'd board as in above. So the opponent may be able to cash in on the equity he has when you catch first, him second.


However, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I think raising in position with this hand is probably nearly neutral equity wise, and has many metagame image-related benefits too.