Non-Aces hand

sherbert · #1 09-01-2004, 06:59 PM

Yes and no - point is, if LP bet the flop with his AA overpair, he's not getting 3-1; you calling his bet is essentially giving him a free card once you just call. That's very different from 3-1. If I knew he had just the AA overpair I might be inclined to call but this board is packed with draws - and if he had a gutshot and backdoor flush as well as the AA then a raise here is better than a call. Your're streets ahead of him. If he's got the jack or tens full, you'll know instantly.

JTG51 · #2 09-01-2004, 07:47 PM

...if LP bet the flop with his AA overpair, he's not getting 3-1; you calling his bet is essentially giving him a free card once you just call. That's very different from 3-1.

I understand that. I was talking about the other players.

If I knew he had just the AA overpair I might be inclined to call but this board is packed with draws - and if he had a gutshot and backdoor flush as well as the AA then a raise here is better than a call.

Doesn't my holding 2 Queens greatly reduce the chance that there's a good straight draw out there?

If he's got the jack or tens full, you'll know instantly.

Sure I'll know instantly, but all of my money will be in the pot so I won't be able to do anything about it.

sherbert · #3 09-01-2004, 08:45 PM

I understand that. I was talking about the other players.

Oh, OK. Well in that case you definitely want to knock them out. You want to restrict this hand to just you and the LP.

Doesn't my holding 2 Queens greatly reduce the chance that there's a good straight draw out there?

Yes, it does. But there are plenty of possible draws nonethless - and if someone has KQ you want them out of the pot.

Sure I'll know instantly, but all of my money will be in the pot so I won't be able to do anything about it.

Yes, that would be unfortunate. What you are trying to accomplish is to knock out the draws/overpairs that may feel impelled to call on the basis of the better odds they're getting or whatever. If another player overcalls your call, he'll be getting 3-1. They may be making a mistake but it is opening up the prospect of you being sucked out on. A lot of players find it hard to let go of a good draw even in the face of a scary board. You especially don't want the moron calling with the idiot end of the straight and hitting his 8, for example.

Clearly the downside of your raise is that someone is already well ahead of you. But with one jack in your hand, you are likely best. LP, if he just has the aces, should fold. In other words, you are increasing your variance but also, hopefully, your expectation.

If you just call and the LP pots it again on the turn you can be fairly sure he's ahead. But you can't be certain and if another player has called and pots it you when a scare card comes you will have to give it up. If you'd knocked out the other players at least you eliminate that risk.

Comments?