KK overpair on non-threatening flop vs 3 donkeys

bfc · #1 07-31-2005, 11:02 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (10 handed) converter

MP1 ($162.50)
Hero ($82.20)
UTG ($76.17)
UTG+2 ($41.25)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $1, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls $1, MP1 calls $1, Hero raises to $5, 5 folds, UTG calls $4, UTG+2 calls $4, MP1 calls $4.

Flop: ($21.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+2 bets $10, MP1 calls $10, Hero?

UTG and UTG+2 are complete donkeys (very loose and passive). MP2 is also a donkey but not quite as loose (VP$IP 30) as the other two. She likes to play any two paint cards and will call pot-size bets with KJs on Axx flops with only one of her suit.

The only other time I've seen UTG+2 show aggression was when I was holding KK and he bet $25 from the SB into a $12 pot with a rainbow ace-high flop (an instant fold and a bet saved).

I'd love to play this hand against any one of these opponents but not more than one. My preflop raise was too small here. If I'd made my standard raise of $6 or $7 here then maybe I wouldn't be in this pickle but that horse has already bolted.

I'll come back with the results.

amoeba · #2 07-31-2005, 11:06 AM

raise a bit more preflop.

on the flop, raise enough to put UTG+2 all in and hope MP1 does not come along.

WildDan · #3 07-31-2005, 12:11 PM

According to the converter, YOU are MP2. Calling yourself a Donk, etc. is a little rough.

...but anyway. According to your reads I still think your fine on the flop. A larger pre-flop raise might've been in order. On the flop I'd raise, likely folding UTG, probably making it $30 to go (should be putting UTG+2 allin).

I suppose it comes down to your reads. You didn't mention how these people are playing small PP before the flop. I don't see MP as having a set though with only a call. And UTG+2 isn't making that tremendous 'I'm holding the nuts' bet you described as his aggressive top pair move before.

CPSUpoker · #4 07-31-2005, 12:15 PM

raise to $8 preflop, raise to $35 on flop

bfc · #5 07-31-2005, 02:38 PM

The way it played out was that I made it $40 to go and everyone folded.

Thanks to everyone for the advice. I agree that I didn't play this well; my pre-flop raise should have been larger and my flop raise smaller (I like making it $30 to go). I was steaming slightly as I was playing at 4 tables with sevaral bad players on each and they were inflicting a string of bad beats on me.

I assume you lay it down if MP1 plays back or leads the turn to put you all-in (or if the turn brings an ace). What if you make it $30 to go and get a call from MP1 who checks it to you on the turn (which is a 5)? The pot would then be $90 and you have $50 behind. I'm fairly sure MP1 would play a set this way. Despite this, I think I would be putting the rest of my money in here, although this is based on my read that there is a good chance MP1 may have only top pair.

I think these opponents would have played 22 or 88 this way (I haven't seen them raise with small pairs from EP) but would have raised pre-flop with QQ. MP1 is smart enough to know that I would probably smooth call with QQ on this board so she would assume that her middle or botton set was good.