I fold QQ like a tighty

Lash · #1 11-25-2005, 04:38 AM

Reads: BB is loose passive, UTG has not been playing long but I did see him play a middle pair passively when he was pf raiser, so I have him temporarily labeled as a sag who may underplay a bit?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero folds

Is this fold bad? And possibly another argument for turning this fold into a raise would be the following hand that happened 3 hands prior...

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 2 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, Button calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero folds

I like my play with the JJ above but that hand coupled with a straightforward non bluffing image makes me think I was too quick to fold my queens.

#2 11-25-2005, 05:01 AM

Ya, Jacks hand good, Queens hand bad.

Argus · #3 11-25-2005, 06:22 AM

The jacks hand is a pretty easy fold. You occasionally fold the best hand here (villain could play TT this way), but not nearly often enough to warrant a calldown.

The queens hand I don't like. If villain knows that you will always fold a pair less than queens here he has a lot to gain by betting. He also has a lot to gain by checking his paired aces. Given that bets from the blue like this often don't mean that villain has the best hand, a fold costs a good portion of this decent sized pot.

I much prefer a raise. It helps shut out BB while often facing UTG with an unprofitable call. If UTG does have an ace, it will be difficult for him to extract more than another BB from you on this dry board. So you're risking 1-2 BB to win 5-7 BB depending on how the action goes. I think your hand is good that often. The lack of dangerous cards give little for a villain to semi-bluff 3-bet the flop or semi-bluff check/raise the turn with (depending what falls). This is another point that makes raising more valuable here.

Against certain types of opponents I fold this hand, but only with a specific read that I am beaten when they beat. Against an unknown, even if they have shown one or two passive plays, I can't put down a hand of this strength.

#4 11-25-2005, 07:30 AM

I dont like the QQ hand. I will peel the flop with JJ due to straight draw and flush draw and a player with 1010 will probably stop betting(even a guy with KK might stop).

stigmata · #5 11-25-2005, 07:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I dont like the QQ hand. I will peel the flop with JJ due to straight draw and flush draw and a player with 1010 will probably stop betting(even a guy with KK might stop).

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like peeling with button behind me. But if I was on the button with exactly the same hand, I think you just about have enough to peel.

Lash · #6 11-25-2005, 11:24 AM

Thanks...helpful to know what others do in this spot. Like you said... until this guy shows that he only bets when he's got the goods, raising is probably not bad.