Bad Flop peel?

[Lash]

Read: SB seems selective aggressive, could be 3 betting light, but has been picking his spots…

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls.

River: (8.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

Is my flop peel bad poker? What about the turn raise… should I be calling rather than potentially charging myself for the backdoor draws I picked up in this hand?

[waffle]

sorry for not being very quantitative, but:

pp other than JJ or AA you're drawing to 3 outs.
JJ AA 66 - 0 outs
AK AQ AT A9 - drawing to 3 outs
AJ - 0 outs
KQ KT QT- you're ahead! and have 6 outs to improve.
KJ QJ JT - 3 outs

seems pretty bad.

[aba20]

Its not great but not a horrible peal. I know I love when I three bet someone and they always fold every flop unimproved. If you go by the math this is a fold on the flop but I think there is more to it and calling the flop isn't too horrible. You defenitly don't want people taking shots at you and they will at 10/20. Turn raise is good and I would continue bluffing the river.

[waffle]

i agree with your sentiment. i guess it comes down to the guy's three betting range. can he 3bet you with hands like K7s, or does he need two playing zone cards to 3bet? until i think he's out of line i fold this flop w/ a J on it.

[CanKid]

I play it the same

[luckyharr]

This flop peel is fine especially since you think he's been three-betting light. The problem is that when your Ace outs are clean, it means your 4 outs aren't, and vice-versa. Discount them 50% and you are left with about 4.5 effective with your runner, runner draw. Also, villain has KQ some of the time here and might shut down on the turn.

I'm not sure about the turn raise. Since you played it like a free showdown raise, I think it's incorrect because the villain here isn't going to fold a better hand on the turn. It may be a better play to get the extra bet from the villain when he fires again on the river with overs, or after you complete your flush and can value bet.

If you had just called the turn, would you have called a river bet?

[Lash]

I agree that on the surface it seems pretty bad, especially if my oppenent is a complete donkey. But I do think that the more thinking your opponent actually is, and the more history you have together, especially in a specific session, the less wrong it is. Am I rationalizing my play? Yeah [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]... But thanks for the input, maybe I'll be a little more cautious next time and avoid trouble.

[goofball]

"could be 3betting light"

That sounds to me like "i hope he's 3betting light." Anyway, I probably just fold the flop.