$119t bubble blowup

#1 12-09-2005, 07:05 AM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (3 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Hero (t3045)
BB (t1625)
Button (t4330)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to t600, BB raises to t1625, Hero calls t1025.
(2 players)

Final Pot: t3250

Results in white below: 
Hero has 3c Kc (one pair, tens).
BB has Jh Ks (two pair, jacks and tens).
Outcome: BB wins t3250. 

Ok, I know I blew it in the moment. If I had any intention of calling an all in with that hand, I should have just pushed right off. My question to the group is do you push here, raise 3BB/fold, maybe complete/fold, or just fold? My reads are everyone's been playing pretty solid but also some trickiness (as would be expected). I had an insane run early on and only showed down once, so the residue of that could still be with them.

Thanks,
Matt

#2 12-09-2005, 07:35 AM

Good rule of thumb here....
10bb rule...
If you or the stack you are raising too have less then 10bb, then push, as your 3bb raise will normally mean you have the odds to call the rest anyway if reraised, thus pushing increases your fold equity.....

Cheers

KingB

#3 12-09-2005, 07:39 AM

Thanks, I forget to apply it to my opponent sometimes. I go by M <~ 7 (since PS has antes), which is about the same thing. What about this hand though, you push here?

#4 12-09-2005, 08:03 AM

Pushing Kc3c from SB into the BB with 100/200 is generally a +ev play if either you or the BB have 10bb or less.......

I'd push here......

Sciolist · #5 12-09-2005, 09:51 AM

I'm not sure that M is the same as 10x BB. The 10x BB rule isn't about the fact you're short, it's about the fact that if you raise less than 10x and someone makes it 10 (putting you or them all-in), you basically have odds to call them unless you can put them on a really specific range of hands, which is almost never the case.

Thus I don't think that an equivalent M to n xBB exists. They are similiar concepts that are used for slightly different situations.

So, a 3x raise is fine here, in my book. I suspect that folding is better though.

#6 12-09-2005, 05:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure that M is the same as 10x BB. The 10x BB rule isn't about the fact you're short, it's about the fact that if you raise less than 10x and someone makes it 10 (putting you or them all-in), you basically have odds to call them unless you can put them on a really specific range of hands, which is almost never the case.

Thus I don't think that an equivalent M to n xBB exists. They are similiar concepts that are used for slightly different situations.

So, a 3x raise is fine here, in my book. I suspect that folding is better though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Read my explanation, maybe its poorly explained, but I suggested if you all the person/people you were pushing too have less then 10bb, this is because the following...

If you rasie 3xbb, and he pushes you (this is likely if hes going to play, he'll either fold or reraise you all in most of the time, or maybe try a stop and go) then the pot will be 2325 with you only having to call your 1025, so you are getting 2.27-1 odds which you have to take with k3c (or any hand to be honest if you believe his range is random, as 32os is only 33% or something, adn 2.27-1 equates to near 30% chance), unless you KNOW that he has AA KK, which is impossible to be certain about in this situation....

So raising is out of the question, as you have to call anyway if reraised all in in my opinion, because most of the time you will be well better then a 30% chance.....

So its only all-in and fold, and its not even close....
All-in because the chance of him folding increases, and fold if you feel he is pretty loose and will call with a high range.....(any ax, kx, and any pair)

Cheers

King B

#7 12-09-2005, 05:38 PM

Sciolist: Actually I think 10xBB is a more simplistic way of looking at M and M in fact is a better indicator of when you should push all in rather than raise. M is not how low you are in chips, but it is the ratio of your chip stack to the initial pot with blinds and antes. So, looking at M instead of 10xBB to decide whether to push or raise is actually better.

#8 12-09-2005, 05:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Sciolist: Actually I think 10xBB is a more simplistic way of looking at M and M in fact is a better indicator of when you should push all in rather than raise. M is not how low you are in chips, but it is the ratio of your chip stack to the initial pot with blinds and antes. So, looking at M instead of 10xBB to decide whether to push or raise is actually better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed