Black's 2 donkey plays

[Deorum]

The KJ hand was awful. Matusow opened for 260,000, Lazar
called, and Black called behind him on the button. I know
fairly little about Barch, but as long as he can read hands
reasonably well, it should have been very clear to him that
Black did not have a hand nearly as strong as JJ. On top of
that, Black's suspicious hesitation reeked of weakness. Put
those together and Barch had an easy call.

[Limpfold]

Totally agree it was a donkeyplay, I'm surprised you didn't interpret the situation with Matusow's tabletalk differently though.
To me it was crystal clear that Black was thinking about the hand leaning towards a fold, then Matusow chime in implicating he's taking long time and since he's gonna fold to just do it.
Black seemed to have the utmost strategy - for good or bad - to be the bully and not be bullied.
Matusow put him to the test by his talk and then Black made the comment about not calling, he was raising or folding, then to back it up he made the bonehead raise.
I'll take poison that he was folding before Matusow urged him to make a decision.

[DonkeyChip]

Given the situation (bubble) and his chip stack and other factors, it does look like a decent move. IIRC, Raymer said that he amassed a LOT of chips at bubble time in 2004. But given the action and players in the hand, I think it was a bad move.

This hand had a huge impact on the chip distribution. Who knows what happens if Black just folds the KJo.

[TheHip41]

And if he had 77-TT like Black thought he did, it's not even 'that' bad of a play. Force him to make a tough call, and still be a coin flip if he does.

[illegit]

I couldn't decide f the A2s play was genius or wreckless when i first heard about it. After seeing the KJo hand I figured it was wreckless, just like the KJ hand was.

Look at the hand from barch's perspective. It goes, raise-call-call (the last call being black's) in front of him. He called a raise after someone had already called it so there's absolutely NO way he has a big hand. He does not have AA-QQ and he's just announced it. Armed with this information Barch can EASILY call with JJ when Black re-raises all-in knowig he's a HUGE favorite to black's range (KJ+, TT-55 or something similar).

So, OK, Black is putting Barch to the test but he's doing it with a line that doesn't jive with a big hand and Barch knows it. Barch's play here was absolutely great and Black's was bad and easy to figure out.

[Rekwob]

cant believe how everyone is just taking barch as having JJ as a given. what about the times barch has AQ-AT or 99 and lower or is on a pure steal?

black made a very good bubble play and was unfortunate that barch had a real hand

[illegit]

[ QUOTE ]
cant believe how everyone is just taking barch as having JJ as a given. what about the times barch has AQ-AT or 99 and lower or is on a pure steal?

[/ QUOTE ]
He calls with those hands too because it's obvious Black's line wreaks of weakness. Putting big pressure on your opponents is fine and dandy if your line makes sense. His doesn't. Wait for a genuinely good spot to put someone to the test. This isn't it. Turbo-fold.

[Sykes]

All of you that are saying that the KJo hand is a donkey play are IDIOTS.

Seriously, none of you should ever play in the main-event (let alone a tournament entry of more than $1K), you weak-tight donkeys.

The difference between 10th and 9th is 400,000$, plus you can add a final table to your name.

If I was Black, I would do this with any type of hands (suited connectors/broadway/small pair) to push Barch off a hand that's not QQ+. Barch made a great read that he wasn't a coin flip and called with his jacks.

The reason that this play is so great is because if one of you weak-tight donkeys makes this play with jacks, and Black puts you all in you're folding A LOT of hands including sometimes AK. Seriously, unless you only call with QQ/KK/AA/AK (2.6% of hands) and you make the 1 million raise with hands from, 99+/AQo+ (5.1% of hands), Black moves you off your hand close to 50% of the time. and even if you call, Black wins 1 out of 4 times against that hand range.

So congratulations, you lose $400,000 and 4.5 million in chips to the chip leader who now has close to 19 million in chips (more than 1/3 of the chips in play) 1/4th of the time.

Even if Barch folds 99-JJ/AQ (which he will close to 50% of the time), Black now has close to 16 million chips. And you're not even guaranteed making the final table and $1,000,000 if you're Barch.


The more I think about it, the more I think it's a donkey move by Barch if he doesn't call Black a large percentage of the time. He forced Black to make that move.

Seriously people. Stop talking like you know what's going on.

[Jbrochu]

[ QUOTE ]
During this hand, Matusow says to Black, "Come on, we know you're not calling so hurry up and get it over with" or something like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did anybody else think the Matusow chiming in here was inappropriate since he was no longer in the hand? I think it was bad for Black to ponder Neverwins possible holdings with another player still in the hand, but I thought this was almost as bad.

[Salva135]

How could Barch ever assume that he would be in a coinflip? He's only in a coinflip with AQ and AK, which is there simply no way Black holds either of these hands given the raise, call, call action. I'm just not buying the argument that this was anything other than a poorly chosen moment for aggression. NL is all about picking your spots, and Black didn't here. If you're going to represent strength, have to represent it from start to finish. Black himself says that he's either "raising or folding ," essentially announcing that his range is way lower than QQ-AA, AQ, AK. From Barch's perspective, once the logic has been deduced, a call is in order here. From Black's perspective, Barch could have had 88-TT, but you have to wonder the likelihood of Barch re-raising with that range given the action. QQ+ is more likely, IMO, and Black should have deduced this.

If you watch the telecast, you'll notice Black looks incredibly sheepish once the cards are turned and the chips are pushed over to Barch. He realized he made a bad read and picked a bad spot. It was a bad play.