a 2/4er's orbit at 15/30

[kem]

Like a lot of posters on here, I'm just a casual poker player. I try to fit in hands whenever I can, but I don't get to play nearly the number of hands that I'd like to. Probably pro's play more hands in a week or two than I've done in the past year. I've played 0.5-1 enough to be comfortable playing 4 or even 6 tables at once. I've played some 1-2 6-max, and a bit of 2-4 as well, but lately things have become stagnant. My bankroll has been helped a lot by the many bonuses, which are pretty easy to knock-out with 4+ tabling. This isn't really satisfying poker though, and I worry that my bankroll has grown faster than my abilities. This boredom led me to try something crazy. I guess I was trying to jumpstart my interest in poker again. I wanted to feel like I did when I was playing online for the first time and really had no clue what I was doing, but was excited to learn. For some reason I decided that I was going to sit at the 15-30 table. Like I said, the highest I play online is 2-4. Live, I've done 4-8 in Vegas. Obviously this is a bit of a jump to 15-30, but I needed to do something.

I decided that I was going to sit down at a 15-30 table, and play a single orbit. I set out a few goals for myself:
(1) I didn't want to lose my entire buy-in.
(2) I would err on the side of tight, and be aggressive to a point.
(3) I wanted to win a pot.
(4) If at all possible, I would in fact attempt the trifecta.. the blessed trinity of 2+2.. the triple check raise.

I don't know if it was just me, or the games tonight, or maybe it's always like this, but it took me a long time to find a table. As always, I sorted tables by highest pots, and tried to join a table with an empty seat. It took forever to find a table where 3 people weren't sitting out. Or two people were sitting out, and two other seats "reserved." Obviously since I don't have the bankroll for this game, I did not intend to post a blind in the CO -- I would wait for the BB. On a couple tables I sat down, and before the BB got to me the table had broken up. Eventually, I was able to find a table where I sat and waited for the blind with only one person sitting out.

I bought in for $630, because I always buy in for 21BB. I wait for the BB, and we're off.

Hand 1: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG calls, folded to the button who calls, SB calls, I check.
Flop comes 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (my first 15-30 flop!)
SB checks, I check, UTG bets. Button folds, SB calls, I fold.
Turn is J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
SB checks, UTG bets. SB calls.
River is the 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
SB checks, UTG bets. SB calls.
UTG flips over 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], SB has A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and wins the pot.

(limping with 86s UTG? Did I accidently sit down at the 2-4 table?)

Hand 2: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the SB. Button open raises, and I fold.

Hand 3: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] on the button. UTG limped, UTG+1 raised, UTG+2 cold-calls, folded to me and I fold.

Hand 4: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] one off the cutoff (poster in the CO). Folded to me and I fold.

Hand 5: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] I'm UTG+2, folded to me, and I fold. Would my VP$IP% end up being 0?? I pray to the poker gods for some cards.

Hand 6: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] HERE WE GO! UTG folds, I raise! Folded to the SB who calls, BB folds, and we're headsup! In my limited sample, SB seemed slightly loose pre-flop.
Flop comes 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Not a bad looking flop for KK. A couple draws on the board, which he can't possible gets odds to hit heads up.
SB comes out betting, and I raise. He calls.
Turn is J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and he checks. I bet, he calls.
River is 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB comes out betting.
Did he catch the runner runner flush? Did he hit 2 pair on the river? Seems like either one of these cases he would check-raise. Perhaps I should have raised the river? If it's a bluff and he folds to my raise, I gain nothing over calling. If it's not a bluff though, I'm risking the 3-bet if I raise. Maybe it's a clear raise though? Or maybe it's close. Anyway, I called.
SB flips over 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and my hand is good. Hero wins 8.4BB.

Hand 7: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] UTG, I fold, and I'm spent.

So what gives, why did I only get to play 7 hands? People kept leaving the table, and the newcomers would post in the CO. And one guy was "away" the whole time I was there. I don't know if this is typical for 15-30, but it was annoying as hell.

So my general observations are consistent with what everyone says. In terms of pot sizes, it seems comparable to 2-4, but VP$IP% is lower and people are more aggressive. Practically every pot was raised pre-flop. The table seemed to have a high number of tight players, and then a couple really lose ones. What a rush though. I was definitely worried of walking away down a couple hundred, but the luck of the irish prevailed. So I left the game up $107, giving me a win rate of 50.95/100. Now I know some naysayers will naysay about "insufficient sample size", but it's good enough for me..

[Argus]

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously since I don't have the bankroll for this game, I did not intend to post a blind in the CO -- I would wait for the BB.

[/ QUOTE ]
In the CO you get 7 hands for 1 big blind. By waiting for the BB you get 10 hands for 1.66 big blinds, but you get to play a button. On the other hand you get good position when you post your blind if you sit in the CO, and this is my preference.

Hope this gave your game the kickstart it needed.

[kem]

[ QUOTE ]
In the CO you get 7 hands for 1 big blind. By waiting for the BB you get 10 hands for 1.66 big blinds, but you get to play a button. On the other hand you get good position when you post your blind if you sit in the CO, and this is my preference.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right.. This table never actually got to full 10-handed during the time I was there. And based on how quickly other tables broke up, I didn't want to post in the CO and then 4 hands later be faced with a BB on a 7-handed table. Besides, it's easier to play "one orbit" when you wait for the BB...

[ QUOTE ]
Hope this gave your game the kickstart it needed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks, I hope it does too.. if nothing else, it was a lot more fun than 2-4.

[vilemerchant]

hehe nice story. I did something similar about a year ago when I was down to $1000 and decided instead of soldiering on at 3/6 I would play two tables of 15/30. I nearly busted that day, but recovered with a few nice pots and finished up at ~$2000. But I was still angry! So I cashed out from party and the next day hit the pokerstars 30/60 with $1500. All day I played it and it was probably the most excrutiating day of my life. Again I almost busted (a few times), but again I recovered and finished in profit of almost $1000. Then I decided it was all too stressful and cashed out the lot :\

These days I stick to grinding multiple tables of 2/4 and 'trying' to move back up to 5/10.

[afk]

Hey I actually like this idea. These past few days I've been toying with the idea that I'd like to take stabs at 15/30 in the not so distant future. I'd like more experience at 2/4 and 3/6 but I see nothing wrong with taking a stab.

[kem]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey I actually like this idea. These past few days I've been toying with the idea that I'd like to take stabs at 15/30 in the not so distant future. I'd like more experience at 2/4 and 3/6 but I see nothing wrong with taking a stab.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I didn't think of it as really "taking a stab" so much as just pure gambling. I wasn't trying to play 15-30 for an extended period of time. I just wanted to get in there, play a couple hands, and get out. It was a lot of fun, but I'm not sure when I'll do it again though

[afk]

Yeah that's kinda what I mean - Though personally I'd maybe play an hour, 1 table or something. Just here and there until you grow more comfortable with it.

[PotatoStew]

Great post! Sounds like it was a lot of fun, despite the mostly lame cards. I'd need a bankroll way above and beyond 300BB for my current level (2/4) to feel comfortable trying this... $600 is just way too big of a dent.

I'd also be worried that I'd really like it and be tempted to play more at that level, which would probably end up being disastrous.

[kem]

[ QUOTE ]
Great post! Sounds like it was a lot of fun, despite the mostly lame cards. I'd need a bankroll way above and beyond 300BB for my current level (2/4) to feel comfortable trying this... $600 is just way too big of a dent.

I'd also be worried that I'd really like it and be tempted to play more at that level, which would probably end up being disastrous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Losing $600 would be pretty bad for me too, but what are the odds I lose 21BB in one orbit? Especially if I'm playing very tight? I figured the most I would realistically lose would probably be more like $300.. I could see that happening if I saw a couple hands to the river and lost both. Or saw a few flops and missed them all. Either way, a $300 loss at the 15/30 table would probably be a lot more fun than a 75BB downswing at 2/4..

[sfer]

Tables break very quickly. There are a lot of solid to good multidonkers who almost certainly have PT stats and will follow juicy VPIPs around. You routinely see waiting lists build around a table with 2-3 40+ VPIP players sitting, and when they leave/bust, the table can break inside of 3 hands.

On your KK hand, 77 will often 3-bet preflop.