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  #61  
Old 12-20-2005, 11:55 PM
Sykes Sykes is offline
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Default Re: 25-50 NL AA hand

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After some chats with El Diablo it seems to me that the limp re-raise is simply too small. Why limp re-raise and still give the guy odds to bust you with a set?

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Hero would need to repop it to 1K-1200 to get 33 to fold.

Hero wanted action with his AA and got it.

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But you aren't getting "action" if the guy gets odds to flop his set and will stack you every time. You need to raise enough where he is making a mistake to call, right?

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True, but you also got to consider the number of times he will make the call with an overpair/TP where you're winning.

Unless you can say he won't go to the felt unless he has 2pair/set.
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  #62  
Old 12-21-2005, 12:27 AM
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Default Re: 25-50 NL AA hand

i'm sure many disagree, but i would never limp-reraise with a premium pair in this spot(fairly deep stacked), even if this move is done with a variety of hands. I think stacks are too deep to reveal your hand this early. Even if you make this move with other hands, this time you actually have AA, and you are trying to represent the hand you actually have. You would have to be on pretty high levels with your opponent to limp-reraise with AA, and have the villian put you on another hand. Although this isn't interesting, I'd just make a standard raise and hope to be re-raised.

If you do limp-reraise and stacks are this deep, you are gonna to have to reraise so much, you shut out all hands that could reraise you, had you just raised in the first place. All in all, I just think you stand to win less and lose more with the l-rr.
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  #63  
Old 12-21-2005, 12:41 AM
FoxwoodsFiend FoxwoodsFiend is offline
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Default Re: 25-50 NL AA hand

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i'm sure many disagree, but i would never limp-reraise with a premium pair in this spot(fairly deep stacked), even if this move is done with a variety of hands. I think stacks are too deep to reveal your hand this early. Even if you make this move with other hands, this time you actually have AA, and you are trying to represent the hand you actually have. You would have to be on pretty high levels with your opponent to limp-reraise with AA, and have the villian put you on another hand. Although this isn't interesting, I'd just make a standard raise and hope to be re-raised.

If you do limp-reraise and stacks are this deep, you are gonna to have to reraise so much, you shut out all hands that could reraise you, had you just raised in the first place. All in all, I just think you stand to win less and lose more with the l-rr.

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Very few people disagree with you. fslexcduck had a hand where she limp-reraised w/AA deep and everybody jumped on it.
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  #64  
Old 12-21-2005, 01:49 AM
FatalError FatalError is offline
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Default Re: 25-50 NL AA hand

Well lets look at this from deerchasers perspective

diablo limp reraised, he's probably good enough to do this without a top 10 hand sometimes, but obviously not a whole lot. So deerhunter is up against a clearly defined AA or nothing, the real problem here is to figure out which one of those HE thinks you have. I think he's making this raise here with a medium pair with the intention of folding to a reraise, that being said i would probably just push in case he has a calling hand you're beating (just KK prolly) or to end the hand before he can turn a hand to beat you he would'nt normally have gotten to the turn with

that being said even with your hand so clearly defined i think you're ahead
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  #65  
Old 12-21-2005, 02:53 AM
clambunny clambunny is offline
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Default Re: 25-50 NL AA hand

i think calling the flop and checking the turn is a mistake if you plan on getting the money in on the turn. people simply will not bet again on the turn with something AA can beat. even KK by that time will be worried and check to get a bet in on the river, but not all in on the turn. call the flop and lead the turn is an interesting line, it at least gives him the chance to make a mistake though i think he won't be fooled. going all in on the flop won't work, he won't make a mistake.
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  #66  
Old 12-21-2005, 03:28 AM
Gary Stevenson Gary Stevenson is offline
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Default Re: 25-50 NL AA hand

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Paluka,

One note. I dont give a sht about the flush draw. If he has that and hits on the turn, good for him, I have the Ad and will resuck.

My most standard line will be to call and then check-call allin or checkraise all-in on any turn if he underbets.

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How about if you/watcher had AA w/o the diamond or if the flop is rainbow. Then how does your line change? Just wondering since this situation will come up often (not having redraw if diamond hits turn)
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  #67  
Old 12-21-2005, 03:46 AM
soah soah is offline
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Default Re: 25-50 NL AA hand

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For all of you who are advocating the c/r all in on the turn. When we flat call the flop bet, wont alarm bells go off in villains head? Id imagine if we check to him and he is on a draw he will take the free card. Is a good line to just call and then 2/3 pot any turn?

I know I am out of my element here but do villains really fire blank turns with draws in these games? I would hate to give him a free card.

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After reading this hand and thinking about it for a bit away from the computer, this is the point that I kept coming back to. With the limp-reraise preflop you are clearly representing a premium hand, but of course there's a chance you are bluffing. If you reraise all in on the flop nothing has changed... you are still *representing* an overpair, but you can make the move with any two cards. When you just call his raise, you can no longer be bluffing. He may not be sure exactly how strong you are, but he knows you're not on air.

In order for this play to work, there must be some chance that you are bluffing (semibluffing)... if this is always AA/KK with stacks this deep then you are just giving away money. And in order to sell this as a bluff, you can't just call the flop.
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  #68  
Old 12-21-2005, 06:09 AM
FatalError FatalError is offline
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Default Re: 25-50 NL AA hand

did anyone actually do the math on this hand?

if we call the 3700 on the flop (nobody is really advocating folding here) then the pot is 7400+ 1575, we'll call it 9k, we had 11k, put 750 in preflop and 3700 on the flop, using about 4500 leaving us with 6500, the pot is already 9k!!!!

next lets figure out what kind of pot odds we'll be offering with our future decions:

on the flop pushing will put 15.5k out there for our opponent for only 6.5, better than 2-1 so we're getting called by every draw, every better hand and lets say for kicks we get KK to call here (QQ will fold most of the time) this is a mediocre solotion

just calling and pushing the turn offers the same odds but makes draws -EV for calling you now which is good this is a big pot to pick up and also adds nearly a buyin to your already large stack. All better hands call, all better hands and KK call, draws fold unless they are "super" draws which is unlikely given the villians ability to assess his outs (making assumptions)

we're not calling and checking, i think this is just awful when we could end up with a turn card that makes this hand harder to play when we've only got 2/3 of the pot left in our stack

so pick your poison, i'm calling and pushing, we already defined our hand so it's time to live with our decision
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  #69  
Old 12-21-2005, 12:15 PM
durrrr durrrr is offline
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Default Re: Results

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All,

watcher_uatu was hero in this hand. I have only seen him a few times, but he seems like a pretty decent/reasonable player.

He reraised all-in on the flop and deer called w/ 33, which held up.

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he had an easy fold. I go broke here fast however. Make sense?
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  #70  
Old 12-21-2005, 04:43 PM
KaneKungFu123 KaneKungFu123 is offline
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Default Re: 25-50 NL AA hand

Raise more preflop. Duh.
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