Who value bets here?

vkotlyar · #1 07-29-2003, 01:25 PM

loose 10/20 game w terrible calling stations now bumped up to 15/30 cause they are all stuck. Game tightened up for the first 5 mins, but now everything is back to normal. 2 limpers b4 me, and i limp in EMP w A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (any1 fold?) A stuck MP raises ( he has some pocket pair) and 2 callers behind him. one of the blinds plays. 7 to the flop: AJ5 rainbow. Checked to me, i bet, 4 callers, all calling stations ( sorry Kenny [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ). Turn is a King. I bet, still 4 callers. River is a 3 (no flush). Checked around and my hand is good. Any1 value bet here? I feel that i am missing a lot of river bets, but is this pushing it? Thanks
Vitaly

Rushmore · #2 07-29-2003, 01:40 PM

I think I'll be in the minority, but I do NOT value bet top pair/no kicker on the river from any position when there were 4 callers on the turn.

If the board had paired bottom card on the river, you might make the bet because the potential negative EV of your weak kicker is eliminated.

But even then, I dunno. I'm happy to pick up the pot without any more risk in this situation.

Dante · #3 07-29-2003, 03:14 PM

If your "calling stations" are true calling stations (and will just call the river with a hand like 2 pair not raise) I would bet. Also, you didn't mention if the raiser was still in after the flop (7 to the flop, 4 other call the flop and turn).

Dante

adrianus · #4 07-29-2003, 03:46 PM

I don't like playing A7s from EM position. How good is your hand if raised? Even an A can't make you too happy then.
Anyways, seems like a lot of callers BEHIND you. I would bet if I was last to act. Otkerwise I'll be more than happy to win with top pair.

Dynasty · #5 07-29-2003, 04:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like playing A7s from EM position.

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding a suited Ace after two limpers is throwing away EV.

As for betting the river, there's a good reason you haven't been raised on either the flop or turn. Nobody can beat a pair of Aces. So, yes, you bet.

J'adoube · #6 07-29-2003, 04:18 PM

I find this very hard to believe ,"Folding a suited Ace after two limpers is throwing away EV."

You flop a flush draw less than 15% of the time and completed about 1/3, and your A could be dominated.

Is Axs really supposed to played behind 2 limpers no matter what?

Interested in your response.

nykenny · #7 07-29-2003, 04:29 PM

Truth was that you were running hot and Open Limped! [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] I was among one of the calling stations (thanks) with a J6o trying to catch good, hehe. But of course I don't call river. I believe you will get called at least 2 places by the K and maybe another J. they are brain dead and believe in nothing but poker gods...

Hey i am running so good, i can be a calling station that i always wanted to be now [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

JTG51 · #8 07-29-2003, 04:32 PM

I'd definitely call preflop and I'd definitely bet the river. No one has given you any reason to believe that you don't have the best hand yet, and that river card is unlikely to change anything.

skp · #9 07-29-2003, 04:34 PM

For a lot of reasons, there should be a river bet here. It's a near cinch that the players to the left of the guy with the A7 don't have an ace (i.e. because they would almost always raise on the flop or turn). There might be a better ace checking the flop to the right of hero (because he might have been scared of the PFR who was to hero's left) but that's not reason enough for Hero to check the river. The pot is so damn big that you are bound to get at least one call and perhaps two on the river by weaker hands.

As for the preflop limp with A7s which another poster questioned...well, why not? You have got 2 limpers before you already. There is a limping frenzy happenin' here...just about a perfect situation with a suited Ace or small pocket pair. If it gets raised behind you, c'est la vie. A raise would be less than ideal but the hand is good enough (in that situation) to withstand a raise.

I would even limp UTG with A7s under the right game conditions (such as the one that Hero was facing) in order to kick start the limping frenzy.

nykenny · #10 07-29-2003, 04:45 PM

forgot to answer the question. Yes, I will VB the river, cause i think i might get paid my 2 or more players. so most of the time i will be ahead in here guaging from the action so far. and the times i get out-drawn, it's unlikely i will get raised. plus if i do get raised, it's not so hard of a lay down on river (when i am playing straight up).

anyway i am on my third tilting sessions now and managed to win in all of them. let me see how long i can be on tilt and still win in this game [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]