AK vs limp reraise (6max)

StLouisMike · #1 10-20-2005, 03:37 PM

6 Max .10/.20 NLHE

Hero: $26.80 in SB with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Villian: $37.42 is UTG

UTG, #2, #3 all call BB of .20
Hero raises to $.80 (4xbb)
UTG reraises to $2.40
Hero calls $1.60

Flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($5.20)
Hero is first to act and bets $5 ($10.20)
Villain reraises to $15 ($25.20)
Hero has $9.20 left

I do not have any notes on this player at this point because I have only played 5 hands before this one comes up. What should be my thought process when deciding to call/fold/reraise? With this bieng a SS 6max table there are a number of hands an opponent may reraise with here but, the one that sticks out in your head is the AA. I led into him on flop to try and get some info as to the strength of his hand and I got what I didn't want to see. At this point of the hand it seems to me that the opponent has a strong hand. So after his reraise on flop I have to assume he has a range of: AA, KK, AK, JJ, KJ, KQ, 44. A limp reraise in a full game reeks of AA but, this is 6 max. KK I have to believe that someone would be more inclined to raise preflop and not take a chance of everyone limping in and beating them with Ax. JJ is also a hand I believe that would be raised preflop. He wouldn't really limp reraise with KJ, KQ, or 44 before the flop would he? AK and AQ are both hands that could be limped with and then try to take the pot preflop in a six max game. So now we have AA, KK, JJ, AK, or a flush draw of some sorts but, I have the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and the K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is out also. So flush draw is less likely.
Final range of hands: AA, KK, JJ, AK
I split with the AK but, I all but dead against the other three. What else should I consider?

TheWorstPlayer · #2 10-20-2005, 03:41 PM

Muck preflop. This is always AA/KK.

Kyriefurro · #3 10-20-2005, 03:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A limp reraise in a full game reeks of AA

[/ QUOTE ]

It does in 6-max too - from a competent player, that is. I've seen the same tactic from some lunatic-LAGs with AK, AQ, and pocket pairs as low as 99. They're hoping that they can push you off something like QQ, and they'll often raise on any flop. For that matter, the limp *could* have been a misclick.

On the other hand, you're getting 2.5 to 1 on a call with TPTK and a BDFD. The only hands that really beat you are AA, KK and JJ. AA and KK are somewhat unlikely since one A and two Ks are accounted for. Even with the limp re-raise there's a fair chance you're ahead, and if not you have a few outs to catch up.

I guess it all depends on whether you think villain is semi-competent or a moron. At NL100 the scales still lean towards moron. Although I haven't played .10/.20, I'm guessing it's even worse there.

So....now that I've overanalized this hand, I'm going to call and curse when he showes me AA lol.

Godfather80 · #4 10-20-2005, 04:03 PM

fold preflop. The only flop you are looking for is Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] where he has the K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Villain is telling you the truth.

aces_dad · #5 10-20-2005, 04:12 PM

You should have more like $19.20 left not $9.20 ...

Given the action for you to see showdown all your chips are going in on the turn or river. I don't make the flop call and hopefully in the future I don't make the pf call.

ajmargarine · #6 10-20-2005, 04:19 PM

Raise more the first time action comes to you, or limp. It's likely that if UTG didn't reraise, all of the limpers would have called you anyway. Now you are OOP with alot of villians in the hand. Use 4xBB + 1BB per limper as a guide. You are SB here so adjust upwards for position. So make it about $1.80 or so to go.

As played, meh. Limp reraise = AA. Fold preflop probably. reluctantly.

StLouisMike · #7 10-20-2005, 04:39 PM

So the general consent is a limp reraise is an auto AA and AK should be mucked without too much hesitation. So preflop a 9 or 10xbb raise isn't too much when in the blinds? Is this something that should be done in the blinds most of the time with strong hands to force others out? Was my flop play correct in leading into him instead of a c/r or c/c? I thought that his reaction to me leading into him would better define his hand and see if he was making a move preflop.

End result: Hero reluctanly moves all in and Villain shows K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].....Hero wins pot.

Godfather80 · #8 10-20-2005, 04:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So the general consent is a limp reraise is an auto AA and AK should be mucked without too much hesitation. So preflop a 9 or 10xbb raise isn't too much when in the blinds? Is this something that should be done in the blinds most of the time with strong hands to force others out? Was my flop play correct in leading into him instead of a c/r or c/c? I thought that his reaction to me leading into him would better define his hand and see if he was making a move preflop.

End result: Hero reluctanly moves all in and Villain shows K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].....Hero wins pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the long term, playing this is a big loser for you.

amoeba · #9 10-20-2005, 04:46 PM

to the OP.

alot of the posters here started a little higher than this and I think at games at the 50 buyin and above, the limp reraise is almost always AA/KK barring any reads.

Because we have not played this level in a long time, our advice might not be optimal. but if you ever move up, you will find it more and more the exception that a limp reraise isn't AA/KK.

Kyriefurro · #10 10-20-2005, 05:28 PM

Ok. Several people expressed the opinion that the limp/rr almost always meant AA/KK. It got me to thinking so I looked at my PT data and the results left me stunned.

It should be noted that the sample size is small, since I could only include those hands where I know what the whole cards were. Also the vast majority of these hands came from NL100 games on the Prima network (up until 2 weeks ago Prima listed the hole cards of whoever took the pot, regardless of when they got the pot).

Out of 925 hands:
AA - 126 (13.6%)
KK - 70 (7.6%)
QQ - 57 (6.2%)
JJ - 28 (3.0%)
TT - 19 (2.1%)
99 - 22 (2.4%)
88 - 16 (1.8%)
77 - 20 (2.2%)
66 - 15 (1.6%)
55 - 13 (1.4%)
44 - 10 (1.1%)
33 - 5 (0.5%)
22 - 12 (1.3%)

AKs - 27 (2.9%)
AKo - 34 (3.7%)
AQs - 17 (1.8%)
AQo - 35 (3.8%)

EVERYTHING ELSE - 399 (43.1%)!!!

AA, KK, QQ, AK hands account for only 314 hands (33.9%)
AA/KK make up only 196 hands (21.2%)

Although I didn't take the time to do a complete cross-reference most of the non-AA/KK limp/rr came from highly aggressive LAG's. I suspect that a number of them have reached the same conclussion that TWP has - that this type of play can be profitable against most players.

I'd love to see data from other players on this....Thoughs?