A way to end the Barron hubbub - A request to El Diablo - Page 2

andyfox · #11 10-12-2005, 12:56 PM

I basically agree with Mason that there's been enough on this issue. But just a few more thoughts from me since you mentioned me in your post.

While I appreciate the plug, I don't agree that BVT has "besmirched" the reputation of the magazine. I just reread the article. Twice. He doesn't say "this is what you should do." He says, "This is what I did." And he gives his reasons for why he did it. And we've discussed whether we think his reasoning was, well, reasonable. I don't see the ego operating on BVT's part that you and others do.

I myself criticized the play in the original thread and gave me reasons for why I felt it was the wrong play and the wrong time. But BVT gave his reasons why his play was correct and responded, usually with good humor, many times to what were sometimes insulting posts.

I see a difference between writing a book that says, "You should do this and that because . . . " and writing an article which says, "I did this and that because . . . " Mason has addressed this point here and I think it's a valid one.

BarronVangorToth · #12 10-12-2005, 01:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I basically agree with Mason that there's been enough on this issue. But just a few more thoughts from me since you mentioned me in your post.

While I appreciate the plug, I don't agree that BVT has "besmirched" the reputation of the magazine. I just reread the article. Twice. He doesn't say "this is what you should do." He says, "This is what I did." And he gives his reasons for why he did it. And we've discussed whether we think his reasoning was, well, reasonable. I don't see the ego operating on BVT's part that you and others do.

I myself criticized the play in the original thread and gave me reasons for why I felt it was the wrong play and the wrong time. But BVT gave his reasons why his play was correct and responded, usually with good humor, many times to what were sometimes insulting posts.

I see a difference between writing a book that says, "You should do this and that because . . . " and writing an article which says, "I did this and that because . . . " Mason has addressed this point here and I think it's a valid one.

[/ QUOTE ]

If only this post didn't exist, the above would be my favorite post in quite some time.

Thanks for taking the time, Andy. I will now go out of my way to besmirch you in my review of your article next month.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

BeerMoney · #13 10-12-2005, 04:19 PM

Nice post Andy. I'd like to say that while I do agree with Diablo et. al, I think Barron has handled himself better. I think some of those in the other thread came across as bullies.

Zeno · #14 10-12-2005, 10:32 PM

Well done post.

And it is time to let go of all of this and move on, as I also stated in this thread.

So there is nothing more to add here.

Thanks for responding with your ususal good sense.

-Zeno

blackaces13 · #15 10-14-2005, 08:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So in that sense, it's probably best to take it easy, but not to easy, on our writers when you just happen to think they have presented a misconception.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, because 2+2, and Mason in particular, have always been "easy" on fellow authors of magazine articles and books alike. I'm sure Rolf Slotbloom and Lee Jones would agree.

Mason Malmuth · #16 10-15-2005, 02:17 AM

I don't see any reason why both of them wouldn't agree.

MM

BOTW · #17 10-15-2005, 05:13 AM

I'm not El D, nor do I claim to be any good at this game.

However, I can see playing Barron's line.

Given his thinking, I can't justify the line. However, I can see myself playing this hand the same way with different thinking. I'm pretty sure these points were brought up in the long ass thread as well.

Before the hand: I'm playing Frank, who I know respects my play.

Pre-flop: Sweet, let's cap it. He very likely has a good hand here.

Flop: Cool, TPTK, "Raise!" Oh, crap, I could be way behind. Let's cap here to keep showing strength and hope like hell my read is off. Could he have played JJ or AQs this strongly? Probably not. I need another beer, where the hell is the waitress?

Turn: New draw, cool. [censored], he checked to me? WTF kinda setup is this? He has to be setting me up here. Wait a minute, he's gonna play me "honestly" since he respects me. So, KQ is likely out, as are the sets. He woulda gone for a bet-raise after the strength I showed. So, he might have AA or AK (esp. with the Ah), but I'm not ruling out JJ or AQ or AJh. Check or bet, check or bet, hurry, how big is the damn pot?, check or bet, ok, screw it, "bet"--he might think I'm way ahead and fold here. He better not check raise so he can brag to his buddies.

River: Well, he seemed weak there, COOL!, I'm thinking it is AK and not AA so this bet ain't so bad and I have a shot to win outright if my read is wrong or he will dump AK thinking I have two or a set. He better not do some fancy check raise or have made it with AJ.

As I'm collecting the pot: The best hand folds?? WTF-LOL? Wait a minute, I made the best hand fold. Yes! AA bends to my will! I am the best poker player who lives!

BarronVangorToth · #18 10-15-2005, 05:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I am the best poker player who lives!

[/ QUOTE ]

Coming to this conclusion after reading my article is a quantum leap of illogical proportions.

Fortunately for you, someone else in a roundabout way compared me with Lee Jones, so you are second on my list today to incur my wrath.

In all seriousness, while I may have enjoyed egging Team Double D on more than I should, whether you agree with the point of my article or not, or agree with my (and everyone's) ability to make certain determinations or not, debating the merits is one thing, but questioning my motivations and/or egomania is nonsenical and the cliched dead-end.

I'm just in a holding pattern until OtE #9 comes out next month, which hopefully will be side-by-side with Andy Fox's "Outfoxed" / "The Fox and the Hound" / "From the Foxhole" / whatever part 1.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com

BOTW · #19 10-15-2005, 05:54 AM

Dude. I don't know you. I don't know El D. I don't know any of the AIM buddys on his list. I was trying to defend your line, albeit with a different attitude. I've played similar hands in similar ways. More than once. I understand that you have been ripped on for your line--I was trying to defend it. I think it could be a reasonable line, but I don't agree with your thought process during the hand.

"I am the best poker player" is my attitude win or lose...It wasn't meant to be a jab, I can see how you see it as such, and I'm sorry that you do.

BarronVangorToth · #20 10-15-2005, 06:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]

"I am the best poker player" is my attitude win or lose...It wasn't meant to be a jab, I can see how you see it as such, and I'm sorry that you do.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was kidding, don't worry, so fret not about opening your front door today, I'm not about to Jay-and-Silent-Bob around the country beating down 'net posters for criticisms.

Regardless, this would be best served for the psychology forum, but you should make the first half of what I quoted from you a seperate topic in the that forum as it isn't something I agree with thinking ... but, then again, positive reinforcement has benefits.

But that's a whole other non-OtE story ... but I'm not talking about #8 anymore.

Barron Vangor Toth
BarronVangorToth.com