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Old 04-09-2005, 01:09 AM
PokrLikeItsProse PokrLikeItsProse is offline
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 59
Default A Hand vs. a Maniac (Playing for the Side Pot)

Nine handed, 1/2 PLO
Maniac is the kind of player who would raise and reraise on the flop with a hand like queen-high flush draw + gutshot straight draw to the non-nut flush.

Maniac in UTG+1 calls, next four players call. Small stack goes all-in for $10.55. Hero in SB calls. BB folds. Three other players call.

The flop is 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
Hero bets $29.35. Maniac raises to $146.80. Straightforward, uncreative ABC player calls $46.45 and is all-in. Hero raises to $260.45 and is all-in, Maniac calls $38.65, and is all-in.

Hero shows shows 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Maniac shows shows 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
ABC shows shows K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Short stack shows Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Turn is K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
River is T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero shows a full house, Tens full of Sevens
Maniac shows two pair, Tens and Nines
Hero wins side pot #2 ($278)
ABC shows a full house, Sevens full of Tens
Hero wins side pot #1 ($139.25)
Short stack shows three of a kind, Tens
Hero wins the main pot ($55.85)

At first glance, it seems I sucked out big time.
pokenum -o 5h 4h 7s th - 9c jd 9h 8c - kd 7c ah 7h - qd 8s tc 6h -- 7d 4c ts
Omaha Hi: 528 enumerated boards containing Ts 4c 7d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
7s Th 5h 4h 28 5.30 500 94.70 0 0.00 0.053
9c 8c Jd 9h 251 47.54 277 52.46 0 0.00 0.475
7c Kd Ah 7h 188 35.61 340 64.39 0 0.00 0.356
8s Tc Qd 6h 61 11.55 467 88.45 0 0.00 0.116

However, most of the money was in the side pot, almost 60%.
pokenum -o 5h 4h 7s th - 9c jd 9h 8c -- 7d 4c ts
Omaha Hi: 820 enumerated boards containing Ts 4c 7d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
7s Th 5h 4h 440 53.66 380 46.34 0 0.00 0.537
9c 8c Jd 9h 380 46.34 440 53.66 0 0.00 0.463

The ABC player scolded me after the hand, telling me that I should have known he had me beat. It is true that I thought there was a chance he had a set. It is also true that he could have had two pair (not necessarily top two against a maniac) or a straight wrap draw. The maniac probably had a better hand than the average of the range of hands he would play this way, since he might even play top pair with overcards this way.

If the ABC player had had enough money to make a decent raise on the maniac, I would have folded then and there. As it was, I thought I had a better hand than the maniac and knew I could get all of his money in on the flop.

Comments? Would you have folded? Would you have been pissed if you were the ABC player?
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Old 04-10-2005, 06:19 AM
EightStuda EightStuda is offline
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 42
Default Re: A Hand vs. a Maniac (Playing for the Side Pot)

Yep, looks like you sucked out big time. You played poorly and yet were rewarded... Think I could get a invite to your regular game?

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Old 04-11-2005, 10:39 AM
MarkyMark MarkyMark is offline
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 19
Default Re: A Hand vs. a Maniac (Playing for the Side Pot)

let me open by the the standard saying: "muck this pre-flop". Even for a loose style I cannot see how this hand is going to make you money out of position.

This being said, IŽd like to comment on the part where you mention being a 60% favorite. This is not correct. I followed the link the and you failed to mark the other peopleŽs hands as dead cards.

Taking away those outs, you are now a slight underdog. So even if your read on Maniac is as accurate as it can be, you are only a bit better than even money. And in those cases where he as hand, you can be anywhere from a slight dog to a massive 70% dog.

But the answer if I had also got my money in on the flop depends on Maniac really. Is he a "smart" Maniac? Has he tried to push me out of the pot earlier and I maybe called him down with a better nothing than his nothing? Does he exclude me from his bullying since then? If yes, then IŽd give him more respect. If he is a mindless Maniac then it depends on how my session went. If I feel invincible, IŽll join the fun.
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