Any eight will win!

[Kaeser]

Since everyone seems to think that this is how the rule applies I'll concede the point. However I'd like to offer a few examples I've seen where it's the same situation where a player has commented on the hand before the pot is awarded and get your take on them. I'm not trying to argue or flame I've just never seen a floor called in this situation.

Example 1: NL Tournament 2 players all-in pre-flop, flop comes 332 and old guy to my right says, "damn I folded 2-3"

Example 2: 3-6 limit 3 players active on the river 4 hearts players show 2-pair, a set, and a straight. A lady says, "wow I can't believe no one had the flush".

Example 3: 4-8 limit 2 players active river is seven. Winner shows top two pair and player says, "nice raise on the turn I folded pocket 7's".

[TiK]

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Example 1: NL Tournament 2 players all-in pre-flop, flop comes 332 and old guy to my right says, "damn I folded 2-3"

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In most tournaments I've played in, once it is heads up action with one of the players all-in, the cards are tabled, thus ending action. In live play, this is not the case. In most places I've played at, cards do not have to be tabled, and action is not over until the pot is awarded.

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Example 2: 3-6 limit 3 players active on the river 4 hearts players show 2-pair, a set, and a straight. A lady says, "wow I can't believe no one had the flush".


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Again, once the cards are tabled, action is over. Cards should be pushed to the person with the best hand. I think you are misunderstanding the OP. In the OP's case, cards were not yet tabled when a player not in the hand made a comment regarding the nature of the board. This player's comment influenced the outcome of the hand. This is unacceptable.

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Example 3: 4-8 limit 2 players active river is seven. Winner shows top two pair and player says, "nice raise on the turn I folded pocket 7's".

[/ QUOTE ]

If the second player (of the two active players) is yet to muck his hand, this comment is unacceptable.

[ QUOTE ]
Example 1: NL Tournament 2 players all-in pre-flop, flop comes 332 and old guy to my right says, "damn I folded 2-3"

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In tournament play when there is no further action and players are heads up many tournaments require the hands be turned up in that case it makes no difference whatsoever. If the hands are not required to be turned up though this should not occur it is not too bad because the information revealed is not likely to effect play.

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Example 2: 3-6 limit 3 players active on the river 4 hearts players show 2-pair, a set, and a straight. A lady says, "wow I can't believe no one had the flush".


[/ QUOTE ]

There is nothing wrong with this all the hands have already been tabled, there is no discretionary action which this comment could now effect.

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Example 3: 4-8 limit 2 players active river is seven. Winner shows top two pair and player says, "nice raise on the turn I folded pocket 7's".

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Again there should not be any comment until all hands are tabled or folded, but if this occurs the information revealed here is not the sort of information likely to effect play.

So while your examples in 1 and 3 may involve talk that should not be going on, they are relatively harmless and only a nit would object.

[ QUOTE ]
Since everyone seems to think that this is how the rule applies I'll concede the point. However I'd like to offer a few examples I've seen where it's the same situation where a player has commented on the hand before the pot is awarded and get your take on them. I'm not trying to argue or flame I've just never seen a floor called in this situation.

Example 1: NL Tournament 2 players all-in pre-flop, flop comes 332 and old guy to my right says, "damn I folded 2-3"

Example 2: 3-6 limit 3 players active on the river 4 hearts players show 2-pair, a set, and a straight. A lady says, "wow I can't believe no one had the flush".

Example 3: 4-8 limit 2 players active river is seven. Winner shows top two pair and player says, "nice raise on the turn I folded pocket 7's".

[/ QUOTE ]

Example 1: moot point in a tournament hands must be turned face up on the table once a player is all-in in a heads up pot. Cards are tabled, cards speak.

Example 2: Again moot point since from your description all three players have tabled their hands so all three hands would be live, and cards speak.

Example 3: Again has nothing to do with what we are discussing but an inactive player no longer in a pot should not reveal information about their hand. Player should be warned not to do this and action taken if he continues to do so.


You have chosen three examples here that have zero relevance to what we are discussing. Try giving an example where there is a hand that has been shown at showdown and there is an additional live hand that has not been tabled. That is the key, here there is a player with a live hand at showdown who has yet to act. Mucking is an action.

[TiK]

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Mucking is an action.

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This is the key point regarding the OP's case. Action is not yet over, when a person no longer in the hand made a comment. Unacceptable.

[CrashPat]

The best hand won at showdown. It seems like you are only mad because it was a large pot.

I agree that people that are not in the hand should not talk about the hand, but it is possible that he checked his hand one more time and saw the straight.

The best thing to do is remind the person that spoke out of turn that talking about the hand in progress is not supposed to be done, rebuy and move on remembering that the eldery gentleman called a raise preflop with 82s. And in the future do not post thinly veiled bad beat posts here.

[bravos1]

[ QUOTE ]

Example 1: NL Tournament 2 players all-in pre-flop, flop comes 332 and old guy to my right says, "damn I folded 2-3"

[/ QUOTE ]
This guy should be kicked repeatedly in the nuts and should receive a penalty. This happened in this years WSOP many times with the most well known one being the Matasow and Sheik guy debacle. He didn't even "say" anything and got penalized and Mike got penalized for saying STFU. "All" he did was bang the table and was noticably upset that he mucked preflop. This should show you the severity of this type of action.
[ QUOTE ]

Example 2: 3-6 limit 3 players active on the river 4 hearts players show 2-pair, a set, and a straight. A lady says, "wow I can't believe no one had the flush".

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No problem here. Everyone has tabled their hands and the hand is over. The pot goes to the best hand. This is similar to saying.. "Man, I can't believe no one had the flush on that hand 10 minutes ago." Either case, the hand is essentially over, and the best hand wins. In the OP case, the hand was not over, as the other guy was still yet to act (even if it was just deciding whether to muck or flip his cards). His decision has impact still. If he flipped em and said.. darn, your straight beats my two pair, then his cards speak and if he has a flush he wins..
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Example 3: 4-8 limit 2 players active river is seven. Winner shows top two pair and player says, "nice raise on the turn I folded pocket 7's".

[/ QUOTE ]
again.. this is similar to the first hand. "Winner shows" implies that he already won the pot and the hand was over. And no one else can claim the pot.

[Kaeser]

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Try giving an example where there is a hand that has been shown at showdown and there is an additional live hand that has not been tabled. That is the key, here there is a player with a live hand at showdown who has yet to act. Mucking is an action.

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Like I said I concede the point to you guys, I've just never seen anyone called out on it. It seems however that everyone now agrees that 1PTAH does not apply after action is complete with action meaning last hand is mucked or tabled not after the pot is awarded.

[Kaeser]

[ QUOTE ]
This guy should be kicked repeatedly in the nuts and should receive a penalty. This happened in this years WSOP many times with the most well known one being the Matasow and Sheik guy debacle. He didn't even "say" anything and got penalized and Mike got penalized for saying STFU. "All" he did was bang the table and was noticably upset that he mucked preflop. This should show you the severity of this type of action.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think in that case there was still action when the player banged the table. In this case everyone else seems to be agreeing that since all active hands were tabled that action was complete and the comment was harmless. I do agree that one of the more annoying aspect of live play is how other players verbally or non-verbally indicate that they would have hit the flop hard.

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Try giving an example where there is a hand that has been shown at showdown and there is an additional live hand that has not been tabled. That is the key, here there is a player with a live hand at showdown who has yet to act. Mucking is an action.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I said I concede the point to you guys, I've just never seen anyone called out on it. It seems however that everyone now agrees that 1PTAH does not apply after action is complete with action meaning last hand is mucked or tabled not after the pot is awarded.

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Note in my ealier reply I repeatedly said "and the next deal has begun." Many rulebooks regard this as the point of no return. If a mistake was made in the award of a pot, incorrect ammount placed out for a call, misrepresented hand, or any other anomally has occurred in the play of a hand, action can be taken until the next deal has begun. Once the next deal is underway the previous hand is over. That is truly the mark of the end of one hand and the begining of the next. So to the letter of the law nothing should be said about the previous hand until this point.