6-max: Confused by the donkbet.

parappa · #1 10-21-2005, 12:31 PM

Party 1/2 6-max. Villain is a bit loose, at 23% VPIP, though I don't have many hands. Haven't seen enough of his play to really know if he's aggressive or passive postflop. The table has been reasonably tight in the few orbits I've been here, so I thought my K9 was plenty to open with from the button.

Folded to hero on button. Hero raises with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Villain (SB) calls. BB folds.

(5 Small Bets, 2 players) Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Villain checks, Hero bets, Villain calls.

(3.5 Big Bets, 2 players) Turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Villain bets.

Now what?

mj12 · #2 10-21-2005, 12:38 PM

seems like a tricky 2 pair that hopes you caught an ace and will rr or a weak hand. Why would he bet out with an ace when the button will most likely bet for you allowing him to rr? Therefor i think hes either weak or has 2 pair. Therefor call him down, if hes weak why scare him away with a raise and if hes strong a raise is also bad

milesdyson · #3 10-21-2005, 12:39 PM

23% is actually pretty tight.

for the hand - call/call or fold right now. i think folding is slightly better. and take a note.

lautzutao · #4 10-21-2005, 12:41 PM

You think a raise here is spew?

EDIT: reason I say that is because I'd expect a C/R here if villian had the Ace.

milesdyson · #5 10-21-2005, 12:46 PM

well we don't know the opponent much at all, and he may be bluffing at us. it isn't like the turn gives him a likely draw to bet, so usually he his betting a made hand. raising will almost never fold a better hand than ours.

so what do i want to do if he's either bluffing or betting a (usually) stronger hand than ours? i want to let him bluff, or i want to not lose too many bets.

lautzutao · #6 10-21-2005, 12:48 PM

If he just calls us if we raise, and we check the river...it costs the same as calling down yes? If he 3-bets we fold. If he folds we win. Good or bad?

deception5 · #7 10-21-2005, 12:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You think a raise here is spew?

EDIT: reason I say that is because I'd expect a C/R here if villian had the Ace.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he c/r's it's less likely we'll pay him off without an ace. If he bets we may call down.

mj12 · #8 10-21-2005, 12:50 PM

"23% is actually pretty tight.

for the hand - call/call or fold right now. i think folding is slightly better. and take a note. "
why do u think a fold is better? button raise here is automatic with a range that often doesnt include a or k especially if aggressive, the donkbet seems like an attempt to show hes not afraid of the A and K and that u better have something good, often meaning he has garbage and doesnt want to c/r as it would commit to much to the pot if hero did have a hand. Also if it is slightly -EV to call down isnt that made up for when villian shows hand?

deception5 · #9 10-21-2005, 12:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
why do u think a fold is better? button raise here is automatic with a range that often doesnt include a or k especially if aggressive, the donkbet seems like an attempt to show hes not afraid of the A and K and that u better have something good, often meaning he has garbage and doesnt want to c/r as it would commit to much to the pot if hero did have a hand. Also if it is slightly -EV to call down isnt that made up for when villian shows hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

The pot is only 3.5BB on the turn so a bluff would have to work 33% of the time. There are 3 broadway cards on the board. After raising preflop and betting the flop he has to expect that this hit us in some way and there's a reasonable chance we have at least a gutshot if not a pair or 2.

Also he didn't call that flop bet with nothing (or if he did it's now a 1.5BB bluff).

milesdyson · #10 10-21-2005, 01:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If he just calls us if we raise, and we check the river...it costs the same as calling down yes? If he 3-bets we fold. If he folds we win. Good or bad?

[/ QUOTE ]
bad because when he folds to our raise he was likely betting the worst hand. bad because when he calls we usually put in two bets with the worst hand.