late in multi..how long do you wait

phrosty · #1 10-21-2005, 04:26 PM

With blinds at 400-800 my "M" is <6. I'm thinking this is automatic, but I always regret it when I get beat and start second-guessing myself. Does anyone wait one more round or is Q-9 good enough at this point. Next time around I'll be down to T6,200, how low can you go before you're getting auto called?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t800 (5 handed) converter

BB (t17464)
UTG (t29624)
MP (t14439)
Hero (t7954)
SB (t10519)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero calls [t7954] , 1 fold, BB calls t7154.

Flop: (t8354) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Turn: (t8354) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)

River: (t8354) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

Final Pot: t8354

phrosty · #2 10-21-2005, 04:58 PM

is this too general or did I omit some pertinent info?
thought I'd get at least a couple snap answers
(first time posting in this forum)

cferejohn · #3 10-21-2005, 05:07 PM

I think this is right on the borderline. 9-10x the BB is always a tricky time because you kind of have to push if you are going to raise, but your stack is so big that you are only going to get called by a pretty big hand. Any reads on the blinds? That's what I'd use to push me one way or the other. If they seem to be playing tight, go for it. If they have called some small stack all-ins with marginal aces and stuff like KQ, muck it. With 6x the BB, this is a no brainer push, fwiw.

LearnedfromTV · #4 10-21-2005, 05:07 PM

It is hard to respond without a read on the SB and BB, your image, and payout info. What multi has these stacks at the FT anyway? Are you still on the bubble? Have you seen them make marginal preflop calls?

Lloyd · #5 10-21-2005, 05:08 PM

I presume you pushed and did not call. I would push in this spot if I was confident that I could steal the blinds. That means I haven't been going nuts with pre-flop raises and the blinds haven't been too loose with their calls. At the same time, you can certainly wait for a better spot if you think you might be called.

centja1 · #6 10-21-2005, 05:21 PM

everyone else is right.....if you think they're gonna call, then you need to fold. if they don't call without the nuts, then it doesn't matter about the Q9, you can push with 76s since they aren't going to call anyway.

i suppose the point is that you're at the spot where you need to make these kinds of plays to stay ahead of the antes while you wait for your hand. but if i think i'm gonna get called by something mediocre, then i want to have at least a king so i have some sort of chance to be the favorite.

nsj · #7 10-21-2005, 05:30 PM

I think you can find something better than Q9o. It is short-handed, which makes waiting more difficult, but I think you can stand another round of blinds before things get dire.

In this exact spot, I'm pushing pairs, an ace, two broadway cards.

locutus2002 · #8 10-21-2005, 05:37 PM

I read my requisite one page of Harrington last night before I fell asleep. The section starting short-handed play says you should reduce your actual M to an effective M by multiplying by the fraction of a full table that you have. In your case 5/10 means your effective M < 3 which makes your hand instapush even if you know you will get called.

I'm not sure I agree with the effective M short handed concept, but Harrington was probably thinking of exactly your hand when he wrote it.

cferejohn · #9 10-21-2005, 05:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In this exact spot, I'm pushing pairs, an ace, two broadway cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd *much* rather push this Q9 than A2-A5. I think A2-A5 (and probably A6, maybe A7) are easy mucks here, since you will be about a 3-1 dog against any hand that calls. With Q9, you could easily be a coinflip against a pair, a 2-1 dog against AK, or a 3-2ish dog against something like AT (a little worse) or A8 (a little better).

I agree with pushing any pair here.

hurlyburly · #10 10-21-2005, 05:53 PM

I think you rushed in. You're ignoring the hands between this one and the button where you have 6600 (and the free hands afterwards).

"M" is a term I wish I saw less, I don't think it's helpful for 2+2ers. It makes the situation seem more desperate than it should, especially when there is no ante.

I make it a habit to find spots where I'll either get help from someone who wants to isolate me or fear of those left to act works to my advantage. You might be better off betting into the big stack's BB for 2 reasons: the hands between you will be more likely to fold and he might make a looser call when they do. Either way I'd wait one more rotation (even with antes).