Marginal situation?

bobhalford · #1 06-14-2005, 11:31 AM

Villain was very displeased about my play here. Since his raise was in mid-late position with no callers prior, I put him on a less than premium hand. On the flop, I decided to bet out to see where I was at. Is there any sense in folding the flop? Felt weak to me, since there were ways for me to win.

Villain is 15/8.8/1.4 over 34 hands.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, CO raises, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, CO calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
CO checks, Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
CO bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
CO checks, Hero bets, CO calls.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

brettbrettr · #2 06-14-2005, 11:33 AM

This is fine. You can't fold the flop with a (possibly dirty) over and 2 bd draws getting over 10:1. You could fold the turn u/i.

mtdoak · #3 06-14-2005, 11:55 AM

Preflop is fine. However, IMHO, you need to release this on the flop. With an overcard and a backoor flush draw and backdoor straight draw in a small pot. Even if the CO is agressive as hell i don't know how your hand is good here. Wait until you have the lead in the hand.

xniNja · #4 06-14-2005, 11:57 AM

Like you said, everything you did was pretty marginal. I might fold the flop, or the turn... the thing says 3 players are in the hand? A little confusing, but I'm not sure the pot odds were there to call the open ender on the turn, but since you're likely drawing to the nuts- fine. I don't think this sequence of events is +EV if you repeated infinitely, but the play wasn't too bad.

crunchy1 · #5 06-14-2005, 12:04 PM

Folding to Villian's flop c/r would be bad. Easy turn call picking up the double gut-shot. Beauty river card.

If there was one thing to consider it would be checking behind on the flop with the intention of getting to showdown as cheap as possible if you don't improve. Given CO's stats (albeit over a very small sample) his range is pretty wide here and given his aggression he may try to get tricky post-flop to resteal, after your PF 3-bet, with a hand that you're ahead of/dominate.

Thoughts on that?

bobhalford · #6 06-14-2005, 12:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A little confusing, but I'm not sure the pot odds were there to call the open ender on the turn, but since you're likely drawing to the nuts- fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I not getting 7:1 on the turn with 8 outs to the straight and perhaps 1.5 Ace outs? I only need 5:1 with an open ended straight draw.

brettbrettr · #7 06-14-2005, 12:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop is fine. However, IMHO, you need to release this on the flop. With an overcard and a backoor flush draw and backdoor straight draw in a small pot. Even if the CO is agressive as hell i don't know how your hand is good here. Wait until you have the lead in the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

The pot isn't small. He has position. You want him to wait until he's OOP? I don't understand.

xniNja · #8 06-14-2005, 12:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A little confusing, but I'm not sure the pot odds were there to call the open ender on the turn, but since you're likely drawing to the nuts- fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I not getting 7:1 on the turn with 8 outs to the straight and perhaps 1.5 Ace outs? I only need 5:1 with an open ended straight draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

After review, I still think it's marginal, but perhaps not incorrect. I would discount the ace-out as he may have qj or aq; and I would also discount some of the straight outs (including the one you got) because he could be drawing to the flush. Again, this isn't what ended up happening- but what I would think about when making the decision.