Doc AZ’s big starting pair hand strategies! New player forum topic.

[Doctavian]

Doc AZ’s big pair technique! New player forum.

This lecture is designed for players who are new to poker in general and to stud in particular. I am going to discuss several of my big pair starting hand strategies. But I will also provably mentally wander around disusing other poker concepts in general.


Our more advanced players may well find this boring, and might be best advised not to waste their time rehashing concepts that we have gone over before.

I do have a word of advice though, which might help our more advanced player’s game. TEACH (many of you are all ready doing a super job of this. And so many of you are SO smart, and such gifted players. I really mean that.)

But as Socrates told Aristotle, the best way to master a science is to teach it. When you respond to a post pretend that you are talking to a dozen or more, super men and women (because you are) who are fairly new to our game, and you would like to teach them the very best that you can.

And don’t say I advise you to do this! Say I advise this BECAUSE!


Point number two: We have THE most courteous Poker forum that I have ever participated in. But we can do better. When someone has the courage to share an idea, or a hand that he or she has played with us, let’s respond with politeness.

For example after reading this post I would appreciate it if those interested would post their advice thusly:

Example
1. You make a good point Doc AZ but...
2. That is an interesting point but I think you should also have said.....(or considered)

I am not suggesting this for me but as an approach to respond to new posters.

When you treat a new poster that way, they can’t wait to share another question with you. And our forum membership numbers can soar.

When I was teaching in the inner city my students repeatedly would asked “ Nobody else is polite any more, why do you want us to be so polite Doc? “Because I want you to be powerful and successful. And powerful people are polite.”

It is true at the poker tables and forums as well.


Now if our gifted members will accept the challenge to really work at teaching, and we can be even more courteous, we can (with out a doubt) have the finest Poker forum on the Internet.

But even more importantly, we can all make a lot of money. Because in life knowledge is power, but in poker knowledge is money!


OK so let’s start our discussion.

Topic: “Just how in the “HELL” do you play your starting big pairs Doc?


About an hour ago I was leaving the poker table and I was filling four racks. (A good day for me) (It should have been 5 1/2 racks, but I made 3 small mistakes during my four hours of play. more on that tomorrow)

When one of the players (Charlie) at the table said. “Your killing me Doc, first you started this session by jamming the “sh..t” out of a pair of Aces. Then ten minutes later you slow played aces to the turn and then put in a re-raise. Then you jammed the table with starting Kings for four betting rounds. And then ten minutes ago you slow played starting Kings until the river, and your one and only action during the entire hand was when you re-raised “on the river” with what had turned into a set of Cowboys! Would you mind telling the table just how in the hell you play starting Aces and Kings?

(First I am glad to share thoughts with our forum members. But as it say’s in Davis’s bible of poker. Never teach your competition! (Because only a fool gives away his edge and there is also a good chance that they already know more than you do anyway!)

As I continued loading up my racks I asked Charlie: “What thing or things did each of the hands that you described have in common?” I asked.

(By now the action at the table had stopped and the table was all ears!)


“The only thing that they had in common, was that they were all big pots, and you won each of them” Charlie said.

“Exactly right Charlie now you know my secret!” I said.

Then Charlie said, “But you didn’t tell us your technique. You had big Broadway starting pairs (Aces or Kings) four times and you never played them the same way twice.

“I just play by my gut Charlie. So long guys. It has been a pleasure as always to have spent the day with you!” I said with sincerity.

“Burn in hell, Doc !” Peter, one of my very best poker friends said, with a hint of irony in his voice, as I turned towards the cage.

(First point: Winning with big starting pairs, in multi-way pots carry a winning provability of from 60% to 30% depending on the conditions. I was very lucky to have taken all four of those pots today. But as one of histories most gifted mathematicians (Pascal) said “ In life LUCK favors the prepared mind!

Sklansky and Miller just published a new book on low limit Hold-em. It is the finest book ever written on Hold-em and has many concepts which are also relevant for stud poker.

Now what Sklansky and Miller do, in their new text, is to set out exact parameters for every two profitable starting cards. Exactly depending on what your position is. Their instruction is to call, raise, re-raise with exactly these cards, from exactly these starting positions.

I feel that if you can’t master fundamentals similar to Sklanskie’s and Miller’s, you can never win at Hold-em.

But then they end their book with a series of questions. They ask just how you would you play certain hands. And then they tell you what they would do. AND THE APPROPRIATE ACTION TO TAKE, FOR MOST OF THE EXAMPLE HANDS THEY GIVE, VIOLATE THE PRECISE RULES THAT THEY SAID YOU SHOULD USE IN THE START OF THEIR BOOK!

“And why do they do that!” you ask? Because MANY, many times table conditions (not math) dictates how you should play your hand.


Years ago I set two goals for my poker play.

Goal numbers one was: To try and play every session with out making a mistake. (I use to have a rule that if I made 2 mistakes during an evening I would leave the Casino. And since I love to play it kept me vigilant)

Goal number two: Was to make a lot of money playing cards. Not so much because I need money which I don’t But because that is how we judge success at our game.


I hear so many players say “ I hate big pairs”

Well: “I LOVE big pairs.”

“I hate Aces.” “I always get snapped off.” “I just throw them away” You are going to hear your opponents make statements like that for the rest of your poker career.

Last week a player said “Every one has some lucky combination of starting cards Doc! What’s yours”

“Aces I said the more the merrier!”



When I look at my starting cards and discover that I have a pair of Aces or Kings. I never ask myself should I raise or call.

I ask myself “What can I do, to see that I play these cards against the exact number of opponents, that I would like to play against. And if possible, against the exact players that I would like to have as my opponents.”

For example: I like to play my big starting pairs ideally against two and sometimes three players (depending on my opponents) That ratio provides me with a good provability of winning, while still being able to build a relatively large pots.

I waited a hundred hands for these cards, I don’t want to win one stack of chips I want 2 or 3 stacks.

And on the later streets I never ask myself “should I raise or slow play here?” I ALWAYS ask myself, How can I manipulate this hand into building the biggest pot, without decreasing my pot equity. Poker to me is a mental boxing match.

If you do nothing but jam or jab, you will usually loose. If you do nothing but bob or slow play you can’t win either.

For example the first time that I played aces today, I was in last position with SEVEN callers before me. What to do? Against that many opponents my aces on average will be beaten 75% of the time.

So to cut down on my risk should I just call! Right? NO! Calling here significantly decreases your profits in the long run.

Raising is the safe move here!

But against this number of opponents your Aces could loose close to 75 % of the time!!! HOW CAN THAT BE THE SAFE MOVE? (You might ask)

Yes they may win as little as 25% of the time.

BUT I AM ONLY PUTTING 13% of the money into the pot.

So not raising here is the risky move.


If you get re-raised cap the betting. But also have the courage to THROW YOUR ACES AWAY when you discover that they are beaten. (Remember the old poker motto it takes a good player to muck aces)


So my advice is to put out of your mind the concept that you should raise with Aces or Kings! Or that “Slow is the way to go in loose passive games!”

But I would recommend that you replace that concept with the new concept “When I get Aces or Kings I will do which ever maneuver will give me the ideal number of opponents I want to play against to win this hand, while still generating a good pot.

If you ask old professional Poker players how much of their money they have made in their careers playing Aces and Kings, they will tell you that about 40% of all their profits come from the proper play of these starting cards! We just MUST learn to play them properly.

May “G.d I love having Aces and Kings for starting cards be your motto”

Doc AZ

Now that’s my philosophy: OK now it is your turn to teach us something else to consider while playing those pocket rockets!

[mshalen]

Doc, Thank You for an excellent post. You have brought to the table (pun intended) a view that seems to be lacking from the typical 2+2 post.

The concept of attempting to manipulate the variables (pot size, number of players...) to produce the best potential for your hand is often overlooked in most of our posts. Too many times we are concerned with should I have played or what should I do on the turn rather than the overiding question of how can I create the best situation in which to play my starting hand.

I have printed your post and added it to my short list of posts that I refer back to on a regular basis.

[dandy_don]

[ QUOTE ]
This lecture is designed for players who are new to poker in general and to stud in particular.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Our more advanced players may well find this boring, and might be best advised not to waste their time rehashing concepts that we have gone over before.


[/ QUOTE ]

Although I grew up in a family that played poker almost on a weekly basis, I still consider myself new to the "science" and strategy" of poker, so I fall more so into the first category of players, even though I have played the game for 20 years. I do however believe that all levels of players could use the most elementary lessons and learn from it. There is a reason many of us have read TOP and SCSFAP multiple times and learn something new each time we do. We try to pound certain concepts into our memories so that our actions become almost reactionary instead of a thought process.

Great post as always Doc. I appreciate you taking the time from your schedule to provide these extremely educational posts.

dandy

[grb137]

Am I the only one wondering who this "Doc AZ" is? I only got through half the post because I started to get bored. Mix up your play - about right?

While I hate to seem to be discouraging posts, I would also hate to see this forum turn into a series of "blogs" that replace poker analysis with poker musings.

[beta1607]

[ QUOTE ]
Am I the only one wondering who this "Doc AZ" is?

[/ QUOTE ] Probably not, he is one of the most respect posters ever on this forum and has returned after being away for a long time.

[ QUOTE ]
I only got through half the post because I started to get bored.

[/ QUOTE ] Sounds like a personal problem. Go back and read the whole thing, it is worth it and 'mix up your play' is a gross over simplification.

[ QUOTE ]
While I hate to seem to be discouraging posts, I would also hate to see this forum turn into a series of "blogs" that replace poker analysis with poker musings.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not bloggish - it is a poker analysis taken from a more theoretical prespective then the normal hand postings here and probably has more value to developing players then 90% of the hand postings. I know it has helped me.

[lstream]

I really appreciate seeing these posts from Doc - I feel it is great that someone with his level of knowledge is willing to share it with us.

[grb137]

[ QUOTE ]
Sounds like a personal problem. Go back and read the whole thing, it is worth it and 'mix up your play' is a gross over simplification.

[/ QUOTE ]

At your suggestion, I read the 2nd half of his post. My copies of TOP and 7CSFAP mysteriously fell off my bookshelf as I was reading it. Suggesting that you should raise in late position with Aces into 7 callers because you're only "putting 13% of the money in the pot" demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of the difference between pot odds and implied odds.

Surely I'm not the only one who recognizes how asinine that is. In fact, see pg. 32-33 of 7CSFAP, starting at the 4th full paragraph, for the correct play in this situation.

[dandy_don]

Nevermind, I'd rather not take this thread there.

[Spladle Master]

[ QUOTE ]
At your suggestion, I read the 2nd half of his post. My copies of TOP and 7CSFAP mysteriously fell off my bookshelf as I was reading it. Suggesting that you should raise in late position with Aces into 7 callers because you're only "putting 13% of the money in the pot" demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of the difference between pot odds and implied odds.

Surely I'm not the only one who recognizes how asinine that is. In fact, see pg. 32-33 of 7CSFAP, starting at the 4th full paragraph, for the correct play in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but you're wrong on this one. The example in 7CSFAP you reference used a pair of tens with an offsuit five kicker. A pair of aces will have far more equity than a pair of tens. Especially with a quality kicker.

[Spladle Master]

Good post.