Offsuit connectors in the BB facing a raise

[pauliewalnuts]

Say you are in the BB with 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

3 players limp to the button who raises. SB folds. Do most people call here?

What if you had T8o or J9o instead?

I always folded these offsuit hands in the past, but it seems that in a multiway pot, there might be some money to be made with these types of hands.

[Niediam]

I'm not smart enough to just know the answer and I havn't have ran some great exeriment to find out the answer but I do know that Ed Miller says to fold so...

[molawn2mo]

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there might be some money to be made with these types of hands.

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for your opponents! [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

easy fold

[elena_elphie]

I often call here with T9o, 98o, and 87o is this bad? I fold 76o though.

I've seen people advocate calling with something like Q5s here too, surely 98o can't be worse.

[W. Deranged]

76 offsuit in this situation is trash. You have no high card strength and are playing almost entirely for straight potential. Further, you are out of position.

A suited connector could be played here but note that has another very important way to win.

When considering when to call from the big blind in situations like this, consider the following:

1. If your hand is not one you would usually play, consider how many different things it has going for it (flush potential, straight potential, high card strength, etc...). Suited connectors might be profitable in this situation because they have multiple speculative options. With 76o you're playing for a straight and that's it. (An exception to this logic is a hand like 22; there, you have only one obvious way to win--flopping a set--but it is a pretty likely possibility in comparison to making a straight or flush).

2. You are playing out of position, and much of the "discount" you get by playing out of the blind is in fact mitigated by the amount you will presumably lose later because of position. I've read tight arguments that claim you should only seriously consider playing hands out of the BB hands that I'd play in late position for a raise. I think most here would agree this is probably a little too limiting, but you get the idea. Note further that out of the little blind for a raise it is very rarely correct to play a hand you wouldn't play in the same scenario in late position for a raise, because the bad position negates almost entirely the effect of the 1/2 SB discount.

3. Number/type of players. You can play more hands if the pot is already very large because many players have entered, and if the game is full of players that will be good for your hand later on (usually loose passive players who will allow you to draw cheaply but continue to pay off if you hit). In the scenario given, you are against a moderately sized field (5 players). Against 3-4 you should be pretty tight; against 7 you can loosen up.


Just some thoughts. I'd be dumping 10 8o and J9o most of the time from the BB as well given normal playing conditions.

[molawn2mo]

damn fine response, deranged.

[SeaEagle]

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Say you are in the BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

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Beware cards that only have one way to win. Try to get two of: flush, straight, high card. With 4 people in, 76o is a borderline call getting 9-1, but if somebody raises you'll be getting, at best, 6.5-1 with reduced implied odds and that's not good enough.

Basically, and I'm not trying to be trite here, if you have to ask if you should play 76o, you probably are best off mucking it - that'll never be a big mistake.

[Hamlet]

Actually, I think 76o is quite a bit worse than Q5s in this situation. In a multiway pot, being suited is more important than being connected. Both hands are looking for very longshot flops, but the Q5s is going to make somewhat stronger hands when it does it (flush vs straight, Queens and fives vs 7s and 6s).

The only drawback to the Q5s is that you are more likely to be dominated. Since you pretty much have to make two pair or better to win anyway, domination isn't all that big a deal.

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I often call here with T9o, 98o, and 87o is this bad? I fold 76o though.

I've seen people advocate calling with something like Q5s here too, surely 98o can't be worse.

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[Azhrarn]

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Further, you are out of position.

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I don't think this is a good reason not to call, because your relative position is excellent. The pre-flop raiser is on your right, and the field of limpers is on your left. If you flop a strong hand (OESD, trips or a straight), you can bet out and try and trap the field for multiple bets. If you flop a weaker hand (two pair, top or middle pair on a favorable board), you can go for the checkraise and try to shut out the field.

[sfer]

87o yes, T8o usually, J9o rarely.