Q8s to a raise

#1 12-09-2005, 12:09 AM

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Villian is semi-loose aggressive, 20.8 vpip, agro 3.4 over about 100 hands.

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Hero calls, Button (Villian)/ raises, SB calls, 1 fold, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Late position at a loose table with one limper is this a hand worth raising with? My aggro is only about 1.2 and I'm looking for situations to increase it. Villians range of hands for a pfr is probably 99 and up, my original thought is a big ace. I figure my hand is too good to fold to one bet since I'm already in the pot.

Flop: (8 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Villian bets, SB folds, Hero calls.

Flop is ragged enough that I think my overcard may be good. Also, my understanding is that it is almost never correct to fold to a bet on the flop in a raised pot.

Turn: (5 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Villian bets, Hero calls.

Picked up the flush draw, easy call?

River: (7 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Villian checks.

Final Pot: 7 BB

Yes, I was going to C/R, although he probably would have called a bet. Caught some greif on this hand afterwards and thought my reasoning was good. Was it?

#2 12-09-2005, 12:13 AM

Grunch

Fold preflop. Fold the flop.

(Edit: I mean fold instead of limping--after limping calling one bet back to you is OK.)

ackid · #3 12-09-2005, 12:19 AM

Fold preflop.

ajm36 · #4 12-09-2005, 12:45 AM

You need more callers to call with this hand (probably 4 already in). Your reasoning on the flop is flawed and this pot is small--you should definitely fold here. Summary: fold PF, fold the flop.

Eeegah · #5 12-09-2005, 01:21 AM

Dude, man...dude.

Q8s isn't even a hand worth calling with, let alone considering a raise. It's barely ahead of any two, and dead even at best with even the absolute loosest fish's hand. Barely ahead hands lose money, and this has no business seeing the flop.

[ QUOTE ]

Flop is ragged enough that I think my overcard may be good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to be rude, but this is a sure sign that you really don't understand how poker works. Pick up a beginner's book (Any of the beginner books here will do, and learn how counting outs work. Then come back and laugh at this post.

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Also, my understanding is that it is almost never correct to fold to a bet on the flop in a raised pot.

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Who told you this? I want names, so I can refer him/her to people I don't like.

tyler_cracker · #6 12-09-2005, 03:57 AM

I agree with everyone else that you shouldn't even make it to the river, but since you did, you have to bet it. That board is super scary to villain, and he could easily have unimproved overcards. Just bet.

Also, if you're going to play this hand here, you need to raise preflop. Limping sux0rz. Folding is best, as i'm sure you know now.

#7 12-09-2005, 05:17 AM

Looking to increase your aggro? Don't look for situations, let them come to you. Q8s is not a good raising hand here. If it was folded to you, I would throw out a raise hoping to steal it, but with one limper I won't, and I won't most definately limp with it, but since you did...

Flop: How can you say your overcard here is good when you put villain on 99+? I would be somewhat paranoid about that.

Turn: Call is fine.

River: BET!!!

Oh and besides, "I figure my hand is too good to fold to one bet since I'm already in the pot." Don't put yourself in that situation then with a hand like Q8s.

AussieBattler · #8 12-09-2005, 06:26 AM

grunch

sorry dude but I dont like it at all.
Flop = Fold (unless you have heaps of limpers). Multitable and youll fold this without a second thought most of the time.
Turn = Call is ok I suppose...maybe...50 50....hmmmm....confidence decreasing rapidly.... [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]with that aggression youve got to look at your stats and realise he has position on you and will likely make you pay for your longshot draws. Youll be paying to see a showdown with Q high here most of the time if you take it further. its not a big pot so save your chips for a better opportunity...patience is your friend.
River = Bet. You got lucky so get at least 1 BB in there and hope he thinks you are donk bluffing him.

#9 12-09-2005, 06:32 AM

*grunch*

I wouldn't call Q8s here after only one limper. After 2 limpers I might play it. I think it's a small mistake though.

I give you about 4 outs on the flop and you are getting 9-1 pot odds, so this call is really marginal.

The river probably depends on your read on villain, and if you think he has AK or AQ or an overpair.

#10 12-09-2005, 10:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Q8s isn't even a hand worth calling with, let alone considering a raise. It's barely ahead of any two, and dead even at best with even the absolute loosest fish's hand. Barely ahead hands lose money, and this has no business seeing the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I'm fairly sure I mis-remembered the starting hand chart on this one to play it in the first place. I'm trying to use the chart less and my memory more.

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Who told you this? I want names, so I can refer him/her to people I don't like.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm fairly sure it was on this board or SSHE. Of course it probably applied to a better range of hands...