Is A-Rod "Becomming" a Yankee?????

[Jack of Arcades]

A-Rod is a better hitter even before you take defense into account. You never compare hitters across positions, you compare them relative to a base-line at their position and then whoever's higher above the baseline is better. The base-line is usually average or replacement (about 20% below average).

[pryor15]

[ QUOTE ]
A-Rod is a better hitter even before you take defense into account. You never compare hitters across positions, you compare them relative to a base-line at their position and then whoever's higher above the baseline is better. The base-line is usually average or replacement (about 20% below average).

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2004 VORP (according to the Baseball Prospectus)

Chipper 32.0
A-Rod 62.3

not even close.

[Jack of Arcades]

1.8OBP+SLG.

It doesn't much matter, A-Rod is clearly far above Chipper once you take position into account - which, yes, makes a huge difference.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
A-Rod is a better hitter even before you take defense into account. You never compare hitters across positions, you compare them relative to a base-line at their position and then whoever's higher above the baseline is better. The base-line is usually average or replacement (about 20% below average).

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2 things:

1. Is baseline like the average at the position? and the replacement would be a vorp-esque thing?

2. I don't like to disagree with you because you rate to be right, but I think that adjusting a hitter to a position isn't very important. a hitter is a hitter, what position he plays doesn't change the outcome at the plate, does it? or is this a matter of vorp? please explain more because i don't agree, but am not intelligent enough to come up with a legit counter argument.

[Jack of Arcades]

Of course, 2004 was the ultimate down year for chipper. If you compare them in other years it'll be closer. Chipper might even pass A-Rod in a few years, like 1999.

[Dead]

A-Rod is the second greatest shortstop of all time, and one of the best players of all time. He's certainly top 25 if he doesn't crack the top 15. Comparing Chipper to him is ridiculous. Saying that Chipper is better is insulting.

[Jack of Arcades]

Yes, a base-line is normally average or replacement level - replacement level is the theoretical level of offense you'd get from someone readily available in the minors.

As for your second point, adjusting for position is very necessary since 1B/corner OFs that hit for the league average are readily available, but a middle infielder that hits for the league average is very valuable.

Consider it like this: if you had, at every position, someone perfectly average, you'd have, in theory, an .500 team.

If you put Miguel Tejada at shortstop he'd provide less offense than, say, Vlad, but he'd be replacing a guy like David Eckstein rather than a guy like Jermaine Dye.

[Jack of Arcades]

Calm down, A-Rod still doesn't even have 7000 PA yet.

[tbach24]

[ QUOTE ]
1.8OBP+SLG.

It doesn't much matter, A-Rod is clearly far above Chipper once you take position into account - which, yes, makes a huge difference.

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If you really want to take position into account to ascertain real value, I don't see how you could leave contracts out as well? My point is, Chipper was the better hitter. In my original post I said "Chipper > ARod." This does not necessarily imply total value. We have learnt that ARod is more valuable than Chipper (at least w/o contracts), but is he a better hitter? No.

You know what I think would be fun? Creating the best baseball team possible for <50 million.

Edit- bolded an important word. Note better does not equal more valuable. Just comparing stats w/o ANY vorp or anything like that. tahnks for the help jack. you should be working in baseball

[pryor15]

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If you really want to take position into account to ascertain real value, I don't see how you could leave contracts out as well?

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you could take VORP or win shares or Runs Created/game and compare that with % of team's overall payroll. i'd think the twins would need to get more value from their $5M than the yankees or red sox.