Is A-Rod "Becomming" a Yankee?????

[tbach24]

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If you really want to take position into account to ascertain real value, I don't see how you could leave contracts out as well?

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you could take VORP or win shares or Runs Created/game and compare that with % of team's overall payroll. i'd think the twins would need to get more value from their $5M than the yankees or red sox.

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Win shares...what are they and how do you calculate them?

[Jack of Arcades]

No, because then you'd be judging a player on things outside of their control.

Edit: I'm nowhere near one of the top baseball minds. This is just something I do in my spare time...

[pryor15]

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Of course, 2004 was the ultimate down year for chipper. If you compare them in other years it'll be closer. Chipper might even pass A-Rod in a few years, like 1999.

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then again, prior to 2004 a-rod was a SS and Chipper was mostly an OF, so the numbers would be skewed. i've got as far back as 2002. a-rod's in the 94-96 range, chipper goes 55 and 75, but as you said, if chipper was a SS, they'd likely be closer, as the replacement OF will do a lot more than the replacement SS

[Jack of Arcades]

Win Shares are an overblown, bloated, complicated, and in many cases, non-sensical stat created by Bill James that tries to incorporate a whole of a player's value.

If you search around, I think you can find spreadsheets to calculate it.

I'm not a fan, but some people swear by it.

[Jack of Arcades]

Chipper was mostly a 3B, not OF.

[tbach24]

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Chipper was mostly a 3B, not OF.

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Was 3B a dominant position in Chipper's career? It seems to me that all the guys who are now the great 3B's just have sprung up as of late (other than Rolen).

[Jack of Arcades]

3B has never been a high-powered position, and Chipper's one of the better 3Bs of all time. It's usually just slightly above average offensively. There have been times where 3B is less of an offensive position than 2B.

That said, SS is a pretty anemic position. Not nearly as bad as C, but it's pretty bad offensively.

[pryor15]

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Win shares...what are they and how do you calculate them?

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win shares are a bill james thing that's supposed to determine just how many wins a player "contributes" to his team. i have no idea how they're calculated (it's not listed in the handbook), but i do know that the players on a team's win shares should equal the team's wins*3. using a-rod as an example, his win shares go 30...23...37...37...35...32...30. i think you can assume from that his value to texas is greater than to NY, but that goes w/o saying.

personally, i prefer Runs Created per Game (or per 27 outs), but that's me

[Jack of Arcades]

[quote[i think you can assume from that his value to texas is greater than to NY, but that goes w/o saying.

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No. A-Rod contributes a greater percentage of the value, true, but that doesn't really matter, as the wins he contributes are the same.

The truth of the matter is, most of the metrics past OPS are more or less equal in value.

[pryor15]

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No. A-Rod contributes a greater percentage of the value, true, but that doesn't really matter, as the wins he contributes are the same.

The truth of the matter is, most of the metrics past OPS are more or less equal in value.

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that's what i meant, a greater percentage. in texas if he slumps, the offense is in a bit of trouble. in NY, well, there's other people to pick up the slack.

oh, and wasn't chipper primarily an OF for a couple of years?

win shares have always seemed fishy to me anyway, and furthermore they don't help my roto team one bit [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]