Rumsfeld

[andyfox]

No one who was there? I know lots of people who were there who said it was unwinnable. But it really doesn't matter what people say, it matters what was.

Of course we could have levelled it into a parking lot, as General LeMay suggested. But I wouldn't call that a "win."

[andyfox]

I don't think theyh were madmen, but I do think they turned into homicidal maniacs. They had no idea what they were fighting or how to fight it. All they knew was we could bomb the hell out of them and that we couldn't possibly lose to those little yellow men in pajamas. It was a combination of arrogance, ignorance, stupidity, and hubris.

[IrishHand]

Define what you think would have been "winning" for the US vis a vis the Vietnam conflict.

[Jimbo]

A 51st state? Trophy wives for all the servicemen? Vietnamese food would now be pizza and beer? Turning it into a resort area like Thailand? Better dope? Cheaper rice? The opposite of losing? A mushroom cloud? Dry socks? The return of all POW's and remains? Being welcomed home? Democratic elections? A surrender by the North? Fifty-Thousand less American deaths? More Vietnamese deaths?

Some of that, not all, perhaps more or less. Difficult question IrishHand but a thought provoking one at that. Hell ask the Generals and politicians, I'm pretty sure they could have figured out what constituted winning. After all they figured out we lost.

[IrishHand]

So basically - you firmly believe we could have "won" the Vietnam conflict, but you admit you don't know (or at least haven't seriously considered) what "wiining" would have entailed.

[Jimbo]

Basically, you are putting words in my mouth as usual IrishHand. Please read my response and interpret it as you wish. Oops, you already have, no surprise there.

[andyfox]

"ask the Generals and politicians, I'm pretty sure they could have figured out what constituted winning."

They would have said winning was the defeat of the Communists and and independent, free, democratic South Vietnam. Could never have happened.

[Cyrus]

"[Generals and politicians] would have said winning was the defeat of the Communists and and independent, free, democratic South Vietnam. Could never have happened."

Not only it could have happened, it was right on the verge of happening the moment the French left Indochina.

A "free and independent" (not to mention "democratic") Vietnam was not in the United States' interest. Simple as that.

[Jimbo]

Thanks Andy, if I had known you were a General I would have simply referred IrishHand to you. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]