How bad were you crushing the 11's when you moved up to the 22s?

[IdiotVig]

[ QUOTE ]
OK...i have 6 109s under my belt...2/1/0/2/0/1/0/0/0/0
I should go hit the 215s, yeah [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Heh. My shrinky balls stay put at the 55s/22s.

BL'...."gold medal in small samplesizes, 2005"

[/ QUOTE ]

That finish distribution is perfect...

-IV

[Phill S]

Moving up too soon is less wrong than moving down too late.

If you think your a winning player long term and can move down when it all turns south, your bankroll doesnt actually need to be anywhere near the 'solid' figure.

Quick roll thoughts:
Most people: 30-50 buy ins
Raptor (to name one): 50-100
Me: 20 (but ONLY if you can drop down without any second thought if you run bad)

As for ROI, your figure isnt that important. Your not going to be playing 10000 games to get it accurate, and if you wait 1000 games youve lost a lot of $ by not moving up sooner. As long as its in a 'winning range' of 10-30% over a couple of hundred, your prolly ready for the next level.

Phill

[Mr_J]

Only problem is it's hugely -ev to have to keep dropping down in levels, which will happen if you use a 20 buyin BR. A bad run might see a 109er have to drop to the 33s or worse???

Having to keep changing buyins even daily doesn't allow you to get into a rhythm either.

Saving 40-50 buyins for the next level also allows you to mature (build on your skills) at the current level.

If you are a $22er-$33er who is skilled enough to play the 109s it won't take long to save up a 40 buyin BR anyway.

Moving up as soon as possible is fine, but there are disadvantages. Operating on a smaller BR than you can afford is just -ev.

[citanul]

there was a long thread a while back about daliman and his bankroll management skills, or lack thereof. that discussion was very good and i recomment that anyone looking to find a talk about gambling v playing with a strong bankroll read it.

i have nothing against taking earlier shots at the levels higher than you are playing. and there is nothing at all wrong with gambling with your whole bankroll if it is actually a replenishable sum. additionally, if you don't care if you lose the money, it's ok to just gamble.

but i do take issue with the idea that if you've got a lot of money, you must be ok gambling for high stakes, just because the money is worth less. some people can/do play for entertainment, but just because you are rich doesn't mean that you are such a person.

citanul

[TheUsher]

[ QUOTE ]
Moving up too soon is less wrong than moving down too late.

If you think your a winning player long term and can move down when it all turns south, your bankroll doesnt actually need to be anywhere near the 'solid' figure.

Quick roll thoughts:
Most people: 30-50 buy ins
Raptor (to name one): 50-100
Me: 20 (but ONLY if you can drop down without any second thought if you run bad)

As for ROI, your figure isnt that important. Your not going to be playing 10000 games to get it accurate, and if you wait 1000 games youve lost a lot of $ by not moving up sooner. As long as its in a 'winning range' of 10-30% over a couple of hundred, your prolly ready for the next level.

Phill

[/ QUOTE ]

As far as bankroll questions go, I'd say that if you're doing it full-time you should have a minimum of 150-200 buyins ready for the inevitable swings for $55+ SNGs. This is much much more than others advocate but without a job it's very hard to rebuild after losing your bankroll. I'm personally going through a really bad run right now where if I had only 30 buyins I'd be hurting like hell.

[citanul]

btw, bah on you. this is quite fine advice, and i came back here to reread it to see if it was flamable. sigh.

[Phill S]

I agree its not a perfect system, but its a system. Its also one i dont use as is.

But if im running bad i do drop to 10s. If im running good i hit the 30s. I generally play the 20s though.

If/when i get to the 100 level, im sure as fook gonna have a solid roll. But 10s and 20s run so close that its prolly more profitable to take that shot rather than play another 100 10s.

Big rolls is a long term thing. Small rolls is short term. It also becomes much less correct beyond the 22/33 switch.

[Phill S]

Obviously if your making your living from poker, you should have a big bankroll.

Its not that i dont know bankroll theory, its just i advocate a different method for when you start out.

Phill

[bkbluedevil]

[ QUOTE ]
Only problem is it's hugely -ev to have to keep dropping down in levels, which will happen if you use a 20 buyin BR. A bad run might see a 109er have to drop to the 33s or worse???

Having to keep changing buyins even daily doesn't allow you to get into a rhythm either.

Saving 40-50 buyins for the next level also allows you to mature (build on your skills) at the current level.

If you are a $22er-$33er who is skilled enough to play the 109s it won't take long to save up a 40 buyin BR anyway.

Moving up as soon as possible is fine, but there are disadvantages. Operating on a smaller BR than you can afford is just -ev.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see how this advice is greatly different than dmkimmel's. Why not move up when you hit like 50 buy ins and move down when you have less than 50 buy ins, think you could do this with a smaller number? I also don't see how people can think this is "moranic" or w/e the hell they called it. Curtains used such a system in his 8 tabling. Strass reccommended moving up as soon as I hit 30 buy ins for the next level. Are you going to call them stupid, citanul? No instead you just like to boost your ego picking on posters who's number by their name isn't as big as yours. It's retarded that you think the post needed to be clarified by "if you are a winning player." Obviously if you suck your going to lose your money anyway.

As far as you thinking jumping around is -EV, I think staying at the 10 and 20 dollar level with a 7k bankroll is much, much, much more -EV. This is true in both the SR with the likely immediate profits you are giving up and the LR since you are improving at a much slower pace.

[DMACM]

I'm with you on moving down when things go bad. Starting out at a new level I can't imagine dropping 10 buy ins and maintaining confidence. thx