Yet another AK early in 22

gildwulf · #1 07-12-2005, 12:33 PM

I still don't have the faintest idea how to play this...I know I made a weak bet on the flop but it was either probe bet, all-in or fold...

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) converter

MP2 (t1903)
CO (t415)
Button (t1440)
SB (t1100)
BB (t775)
Hero (t775)
UTG+1 (t996)
MP1 (t596)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises to t90, 1 fold, MP1 calls t90, 2 folds, Button calls t90, SB calls t75, 1 fold.

Flop: (t390) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t125, MP1 calls t125, Button folds, SB folds.

Turn: (t640) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets t150, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t790

rydazzle · #2 07-12-2005, 12:48 PM

I think it was a good fold - he laid you 5:1, unless he's retarded, that's a monster.

I doubt I would have probed the flop with 4 players, especially since those Qs fill some calling hands like AQ and KQ. I might get railed for this, but check and see who leads out...I think you are way behind here.

gildwulf · #3 07-12-2005, 12:51 PM

OK, in my point of view if I am going to check here after leading the flop I might as well just fold.

If I check and everyone else checks, I know nothing about anyone's hand and someone is probably slowplaying a queen.

If I check and someone in late position bets, I know nothing about their hand and I still have to fold.

If I raise all-in I will only get called by a queen.

If I make a probe bet and get reraised all-in, I can get out safely without losing too much of my stack.

If I get called after probe bet, I will just have to sort of wing it depending on the player.

Or I can fold.

This is the thought process I go through on these hands (and I hope most 2+2ers do too)...out of all these options I think probe bet is the best but I would love to hear arguments for otherwise.

gumpzilla · #4 07-12-2005, 12:55 PM

With 3 callers and that board, I don't think this is the best time to continue. Ordinarily your continuation of that size would look super-weak; here, it might conceivably look like you're trying to suck them in with a Q, but I think a c/r would make more sense so that's not so realistic. I think I check, and unless the action is quite cheap I'm probably folding when it gets back to me.

playtitleist · #5 07-12-2005, 01:00 PM

Agreed. His initial call came with 4 (?) players yet to act. I would put him on trips or two pair after he called on the flop. His call meant he had SOMETHING. When you didn't bet on the turn you were dead, but you likely didn't have the best hand anyway. You folded correctly, as you had few outs and any one of them A-K-10 might have given him a full house. Better to save the chips.

gildwulf · #6 07-12-2005, 01:05 PM

Yea, if I get flat-called on a flop like that I instantly shut down the hand. I was more interested in how you guys would play the flop...

rydazzle · #7 07-12-2005, 01:05 PM

dont get me wrong, i love continuation bets for the steal and the info...I am saying that in this situation that flop texture and # opponents are bad for a cont bet.

If you are heads up, the fact that there are 2 Q's make it good odds your opponent doesnt have one, and I'd throw in a cont bet...3 others are too likely to have hit that.

gumpzilla · #8 07-12-2005, 01:11 PM

Your bet was so small that I don't think you can automatically shut down if it gets called, which is why I'm not so wild about it. On a paired board (it's a little different since it's paired Qs) I think people are more likely than average to call with middling pocket pairs. If you make it cheap for them, they can hang around comfortably.