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  #1  
Old 12-29-2005, 05:40 PM
Maulik Maulik is offline
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Default Eliminating Post-Flop

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP ($27.25)
CO ($6.85)
Hero ($35.50)
SB ($9.20)
BB ($9.40)
UTG ($13.90)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.25</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls $1.

Flop: ($2.85) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $34.25 (All-In)</font>

This makes my life much easier w/ high card ace and I definately want to see 2 more cards here. Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 12-29-2005, 05:44 PM
poboy poboy is offline
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Default Re: Eliminating Post-Flop

Doesn't seem to optimal to me. You lose the most when behind and make nothing when ahead.
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  #3  
Old 12-29-2005, 05:45 PM
tripp0807 tripp0807 is offline
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Default Re: Eliminating Post-Flop

IMHO, bad play

When you get called, you're probably behind with outs that will miss more often than not

when you don't get called, you're up a measly $2.85
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  #4  
Old 12-29-2005, 05:50 PM
tripp0807 tripp0807 is offline
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Default Re: Eliminating Post-Flop

[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't seem to optimal to me. You lose the most when behind and make nothing when ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

poboy:

You only get one warning. This is the second time you've responded only seconds before me with the same thing I say. Cease and desist. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
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  #5  
Old 12-29-2005, 05:53 PM
Kyriefurro Kyriefurro is offline
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Default Re: Eliminating Post-Flop

You have 15 outs if villain has any part of this board, and all of your outs are probably good. So your outs plus FE make this move +EV.

That being said, I think that 95+% of the time you're going to win the $2.85 pot for a net win of $1.25. I think that in a hand like this you're much better off letting villain put some more chips in the center before you try to take the pot. You'll win more over the long run, especially since you can frequently cause villain to find himself pot-committed on later streets when your draw gets there.

Of course, a lot of this depends on reads too (then again, what doesnt?).
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  #6  
Old 12-29-2005, 05:56 PM
tripp0807 tripp0807 is offline
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Default Re: Eliminating Post-Flop

[ QUOTE ]
You have 15 outs if villain has any part of this board, and all of your outs are probably good. So your outs plus FE make this move +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

This ignores the fact that when you get called, it's not by a villian with any part of the board - after a call of the PFR, with this board, you can put a calling villain on a set most of the time - all your outs aren't good, and even if you hit on the turn, a set has redraws against any heart.
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  #7  
Old 12-29-2005, 06:09 PM
Kyriefurro Kyriefurro is offline
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Default Re: Eliminating Post-Flop

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have 15 outs if villain has any part of this board, and all of your outs are probably good. So your outs plus FE make this move +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

This ignores the fact that when you get called, it's not by a villian with any part of the board - after a call of the PFR, with this board, you can put a calling villain on a set most of the time - all your outs aren't good, and even if you hit on the turn, a set has redraws against any heart.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is read dependent of course. However at NL25, most opponents do NOT even consider the fact that you raised when they decide if they're going to call or not. They see JTs and figure it can make a straight AND a flush and that they should therefore call. There are an aweful lot of hands here that the average NL25er would call with PF that hero is still ahead of. You'd be surprised how many times villain will call hero's push with a smaller flush draw or even 89o.

I stand by my original statement. I think that hero's outs combined with his fold equity make this move +EV. That being said I don't think the EV is very large. And I definately think that letting the hand play out, instead of pushing on this flop has a much larger EV than the way hero played this.

As Poboy so elegantly put it, hero's play makes him the least when he's ahead and costs him the most when he looses.
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  #8  
Old 12-29-2005, 06:27 PM
teamdonkey teamdonkey is offline
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Default Re: Eliminating Post-Flop

[ QUOTE ]
I definately want to see 2 more cards here.

[/ QUOTE ]

you're gauranteed to see 1 by checking, and can probably buy a cheap 2nd one with a good bet here. A pot size bet does the same thing IMO at a much cheaper price. Because villain is short stacked i think your play is +EV, but there are better choices.

The only reason i'd do this is to further a table image i've been working on.
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  #9  
Old 12-29-2005, 06:27 PM
poboy poboy is offline
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Default Re: Eliminating Post-Flop

Sorry... No work today and I'm bored, it won't happen again. I will wait at least 10 minutes before responding to any threads. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]
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