I suck at value betting!

[Stealthy]

Please comment on the river of these hands.

HAND 1: Vilain is 45/18/1.3 after 300 hands. He likes to call but has not made any undue moves on me except one hand when he bluffed me off of the better ace and showed. This hand was before that though.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.33 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.16 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls.

River: (6.16 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks.

Final Pot: 6.16 BB


HAND 2: An early hand at the table and had no read at the time on vilain. This one stinks like cold pizza!

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, MP calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.33 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls, MP calls.

Turn: (4.66 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG folds, MP calls.

River: (6.66 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP checks.

Final Pot: 6.66 BB


HAND 3: Vilain is 49/3.7.0.3 after about 100 hands. A painfull one to look at again. What was I thinking?

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, MP calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, MP folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, UTG calls.

River: (6.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG checks.

Final Pot: 6.50 BB

I checked the flop to guage the action before committing.


HAND 4: Vilain is the same as the last one. After 2 checks can I value bet my lowly 2s? Tiny, tiny pot.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: (2.33 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP checks.

Turn: (1.16 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP checks.

River: (1.16 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP checks.

Final Pot: 1.16 BB

All these were at the same table in the first 45 mins. I did play a lot stronger in similar situations later so maybe am making this post to stop myself playing so weak in the future. Feel free to laugh, name call and lambast in ever conceivable way at my bad play!

[philnewall]

In hand one since villian can bluff there's nothing wrong with check/calling the river. Yes hand 2 is a sure value bet.

[toss]

Value betting depends heavily on Went To Showdown Rate (wtsd). The higher this number the more willing you should be to value bet. I can tell you right now that Hand 2 is an easy value bet and you should bet the flop in Hand 4.

Hand reading also comes into play when value betting. Put villain a range of hands he'll call with if you bet the river.

I was about to make a post that would mimic this one almost to a T. My value betting has been all sorts of off lately, but getting better. I have way too many hands that look like these.

Toss, you gotta fold to a raise in Hand 4, right? Those are the hands I end up checking down like crazy, especially OOP and in a miniscule pot. I need a mantra, Must.Value.Bet.

[Stealthy]

[ QUOTE ]
bet the flop in Hand 4.



[/ QUOTE ]

This one in particulat highlights my inconsistancy. I will bet any part of the board or any draw HU usually but for some reason froze up here. Once I missed the flop bet I got stuck on the other 2 streets faced with betting one to win one when any pair in my opponents hand had me beat.

[toss]

In hand 4 if villain raises I'd probably call and fold the turn.

[Roy6]

hand1: fold PF

hand2: bet river and call a raise

hand3: Checking isn't awful here. You split if he has another ace.
He called cold 2 on the flop, I don't think he has a PP here.
As he's passive, we can fold to a raise so I guess we can bet though.

hand4: you want to bet the flop here, not allowing a free card.
if he calls, bet thius turn too.

I should have been more clear, I was talking about if he value bet the river and villain raised then. Do you still make a call?

I know there was some big thread recently about number of river bluffs that you win, and I don't think the results were good for small pots with only a pair. Although, to me, that sort of thing is so much more read dependant than statistical.

[toss]

I probably wouldn't bet the river in hand 4 if villain called all the way. But if I did I'm definitely folding.