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  #1  
Old 12-21-2005, 10:37 AM
SteveY SteveY is offline
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Default probably boring standard hand LO8

7handed party

2 players call ahead of me. I call with Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] on the button. SB and BB come along.

good preflop?

Flop: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB checks. BB checks. Limper bets. CO calls. I ?
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  #2  
Old 12-21-2005, 10:48 AM
kitaristi0 kitaristi0 is offline
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Default Re: probably boring standard hand LO8

Fold. 2nd nut low draw and a gutshot. The pot is small, not worth tagging along.

Preflop seems good, however if the two callers in front of you are rocks who only play A2 then I might be inclined to fold.
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  #3  
Old 12-21-2005, 11:11 AM
Buzz Buzz is offline
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Default Re: probably boring standard hand LO8

[ QUOTE ]
good preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

Steve - Yes. I think you want to play this hand in this field for a single bet from the button.

[ QUOTE ]
SB checks. BB checks. Limper bets. CO calls. I ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd call to see one more card if I thought a check-raise by SB or BB was very unlikely. I don't like chasing with mostly only the 2nd-nut low draw, but if you're going to see the flop with this hand then I think you have to continue for one more bet after this flop.

Buzz
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  #4  
Old 12-21-2005, 11:59 AM
dcasper70 dcasper70 is offline
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Default Re: probably boring standard hand LO8

What do the forum members think about raising this preflop?

Shorthanded, this should be an additional option (of course dependant on many other factors). I don't advocate raising it regularly, but 10%-20% of the time it is a good 'mix it up' play.

A number of possible reasons:
May knock out SB/BB.
Disguise your good pfr hands.
If you flop well, it will be hard to put you on this hand.
If you flop badly, you can skate away easily.
If you flop mediocre, you might see a free turn.
If you get to showdown this hand, you're likely to get more action on your monsters.
Altering your table image.

Shorthanded, and with position, some agression in spots like this can pay long term dividends.

Again, I stress that this is situationally dependant and not a frequent play, but recognizing that this option exists can pay off.
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  #5  
Old 12-21-2005, 12:44 PM
kitaristi0 kitaristi0 is offline
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Default Re: probably boring standard hand LO8

[ QUOTE ]
What do the forum members think about raising this preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

If there was only 1 caller in front of me, who I knew to be a mediocre player, I might consider raising to isolate him, but in this spot I'm happy to just see a cheap flop and try to hit big.
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  #6  
Old 12-21-2005, 12:59 PM
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Default Re: probably boring standard hand LO8

I agree with Buzz. I'd call as long as I was pretty sure it would be for one bet. There are a number of good things that could happen on the turn, the obvious and not-so-obvious, including a club and a non-heart 10 or King, which might allow you to bet and knock out other low drawers (assuming it's a high club).
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  #7  
Old 12-21-2005, 04:53 PM
Buzz Buzz is offline
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Default Re: probably boring standard hand LO8

[ QUOTE ]
What ..... about raising this preflop? ..... 10%-20% of the time it is a good 'mix it up' play

[/ QUOTE ]

Good idea. Occasional raising with hands like this make you harder to read and tougher to play against.

[ QUOTE ]
A number of possible reasons:
May knock out SB/BB.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure why you want to do that. If you start raising too much before the flop, you're probably going to make the game tighter and that doesn't seem an advantage. I think you want chasers to make this game pay off for you. The irony here is unless you play very, very tightly (I think too tightly) on the second betting round, you'll often be a chaser yourself if you see the flop with this hand.
[ QUOTE ]
Disguise your good pfr hands.
If you flop well, it will be hard to put you on this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes. This is the reason.
[ QUOTE ]
If you flop badly, you can skate away easily.

[/ QUOTE ]
You can skate away more easily if you limp.
[ QUOTE ]
If you flop mediocre, you might see a free turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
Rather doubtful in a typical game. But maybe. I don't see this as much of an advantage.
[ QUOTE ]
If you get to showdown this hand, you're likely to get more action on your monsters.

[/ QUOTE ]
I guess by monster you mean the nuts.
[ QUOTE ]
Altering your table image.

[/ QUOTE ]
not sure why you want to do that.
[ QUOTE ]
Shorthanded, and with position, some agression in spots like this can pay long term dividends.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes. The pay-off for raising pre-flop with this hand will be with another hand sometime in the future.

[ QUOTE ]
.... recognizing that this option exists can pay off.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

Buzz
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