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  #1  
Old 12-12-2005, 05:52 AM
jason_t jason_t is offline
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Default 10/20 QQ

SB is 27.9/14.31/2.52 over 6436 and is the same villain from the KK hand. UTG+1 is 16.8/6.56/1.49 over 457 and this was his first orbit at the table.

Is it best to wait for the turn here? What effect does having the Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] have on this decision?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (9 max, 8 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: I am UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">I raise</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">I bet</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, BB folds
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  #2  
Old 12-12-2005, 06:15 AM
lil feller lil feller is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 QQ

I cap and see what happens on the turn. With that board and so many cold callers preflop, a set is certainly a possibility for either player, and getting 3bet on the turn would suck. There are also alot of turn cards that will discourage you from wanting to raise the turn, like any A, K, heart, 6, 3, or 5. I'd rather get the pissing match over on the small bet street here, you're hand does'nt look all that great.

Maybe i'm seeing monsters under the bed though...

lf
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  #3  
Old 12-12-2005, 06:18 AM
PokerBob PokerBob is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 QQ

[ QUOTE ]
SB is 27.9/14.31/2.52 over 6436 and is the same villain from the KK hand. UTG+1 is 16.8/6.56/1.49 over 457 and this was his first orbit at the table.

Is it best to wait for the turn here? What effect does having the Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] have on this decision?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (9 max, 8 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: I am UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">I raise</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">I bet</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, BB folds

[/ QUOTE ]

nah, gas it now and hopefully fold out UTG+1. wtf is that guy cold-calling first in with anyway? weird.
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  #4  
Old 12-12-2005, 06:19 AM
Dazarath Dazarath is offline
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Posts: 185
Default Re: 10/20 QQ

Having the Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] means that you have a higher likely hood of having 2 clean outs if you're behind. Also, it lessens the chance of a redraw if you spike a Q. Lastly, if a 3rd [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] falls, there's a small chance your Q-high flush draw is live.

I think waiting for the turn to raise a good card is good (I like a cap as well). If a 3 or 5 falls, it allows you to save money (maybe a [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] as well). And if a blank falls, you can pump the pot when you have more equity.
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  #5  
Old 12-12-2005, 09:20 AM
DMBFan23 DMBFan23 is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 QQ

Hey bob,

I think UTG+1 will be calling with whatever he thought was good enough to raise with, though I do normally just cap the flop OOP.
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  #6  
Old 12-12-2005, 10:21 AM
Nick Royale Nick Royale is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 QQ

I think the most likely hands for UTG+1 is TT-77. In a 6-handed pot I don't think a tight and rather passive player like this will raise with a flushdraw very often, but that's still a possibility. There's also a risk we're up against a set.

I think SBs range is rather big. Flushdraw with overs, overpair, sets, all are likely. We're definately ahead more often than not against these players. By calling the flop we're giving UTG+1 odds to call with his most likely hands, 77-TT, to spike a set. I think that would be a mistake, since we're ahead of SB more often than not (at least 75/25 imo).

I can see a point in calling the flop and raising the turn to charge draws, but I don't think SB and UTG+1 is on flush-/straightdraws often enough to justify that line.

Besides the plan to charge draws might backfire. If UTG+1 is on a flushdraw+overs he might cap for a freecard, a freecard at least I would offer him if he caps. If SB is on a flushdraw he might check the turn, making us unable to raise.

In either case we might and up in a tough spot on the turn. If we cap the flop and get raised on the turn or if we call the flop and get 3-betted on the turn I would be calling down crying knowing I'm about to lose.
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  #7  
Old 12-12-2005, 10:47 AM
Chris Daddy Cool Chris Daddy Cool is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 QQ

bust a cap in their ass(es).
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  #8  
Old 12-12-2005, 11:55 AM
Mempho Mempho is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 QQ

Without reading the other replies, I say call 2 cold and raise the SB's turn bet on a non-heart turn. The SB's 3-bet reeks of a big draw, but it could also be an indication of a small 2 pair, made str8, or a set....he could also be bumping A6 here. That said, I put him on a draw as the most likely thing and try to push UTG+1 out on the turn. UTG+1 is only 16.8 which makes it very possible that he floated a medium pair or, much less likely, suited heart broadway.
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  #9  
Old 12-12-2005, 11:56 AM
Mempho Mempho is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 QQ

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
SB is 27.9/14.31/2.52 over 6436 and is the same villain from the KK hand. UTG+1 is 16.8/6.56/1.49 over 457 and this was his first orbit at the table.

Is it best to wait for the turn here? What effect does having the Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] have on this decision?

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (9 max, 8 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: I am UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">I raise</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">I bet</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, BB folds

[/ QUOTE ]

nah, gas it now and hopefully fold out UTG+1. wtf is that guy cold-calling first in with anyway? weird.

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably floating 77-99 or suited broadway.
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  #10  
Old 12-12-2005, 12:01 PM
Mempho Mempho is offline
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Default Re: 10/20 QQ

[ QUOTE ]
Hey bob,

I think UTG+1 will be calling with whatever he thought was good enough to raise with, though I do normally just cap the flop OOP.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think a cap is going to push UTG+1 out here so I would cede the value of a flop cap in order to get him to lay down for 2BB on the turn. Losing the EV on the flop has got to be more than balanced out by the equity edge we gain on pushing him out on the turn. Now, if he wants to call 2 cold on the turn, that's his prerogative, but it's likely an error.
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