$11 - Jacks on a nasty board

pergesu · #1 10-27-2005, 11:58 PM

Thoughts on all streets

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (8 handed) wacki's version of bison

MP2 (t1575)
CO (t650)
Button (t700)
SB (t640)
BB (t750)
UTG (t2250)
UTG+1 (t695)
Hero (t740)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero calls t30, MP2 calls t30, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t120) 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)

SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets t80, MP2 folds, SB calls t80, BB folds.

Turn: (t280) K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets t30, Hero calls t30.

River: (t340) 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets t30, Hero raises to t175

#2 10-28-2005, 12:04 AM

I'd open raise to 100after that flop I'd then bet another 100(1/2 to 3/4 of the pot), . If he bets into me I'd probably push. If he takes a shady line, like check/raising me or calling then leading the turn....I may reevalutate getting all my chips in.

After your flop bet and his weak lead, I'd probably just call down. No need to raise on such a scary board. $11ers can't laydown a 2h, a 5, and some can't laydown a K.

stanzee · #3 10-28-2005, 12:06 AM

This is the problem with not raising jacks preflop. You could have been much more comfortable on the flop if you'd raised preflop.

pergesu · #4 10-28-2005, 12:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This is the problem with not raising jacks preflop. You could have been much more comfortable on the flop if you'd raised preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]
Isn't that slightly results oriented?

My preflop play, especially in the early levels, is pretty well-defined at this point...

But I would be honored if the special one could comment on the rest of the hand (preflop comments noted).

jeffraider · #5 10-28-2005, 12:16 AM

Here it is, all streets:

Preflop: I've been raising JJ like I would AA-QQ recently, and it's been working out fine. As long as you're decent postflop, you should be okay raising, but I'll say this, limping is okay as well.

Flop: Two checks to you, you bet 3/4 of the pot, nice job, I play the same here.

Turn: I like the call. Your hand isn't a monster, and if he's giving you a very discounted river, I say take it.

River: Are you trying to fold out a king here? Too fancy man, this is an $11. If he does have a heart he isn't folding and he could easily call you with a king as well. For me, this river is just like the turn, he's giving you a very good price to see a showdown, why not take it?

ChrisV · #6 10-28-2005, 12:51 AM

I agree with the limp preflop. I actually think raising JJ in early position is pretty bad - I don't think it's close.

The bet on the flop is a bit on the small side. I'd bet the pot.

On the turn you should raise to about 200, 250. SB's weak lead there probably has the object of seeing a cheap river. Don't oblige him. If he calls, check behind on the river unless it's a jack.

On the river, just call. A raise has a good chance of moving SB off a king (although some players still call). The problem is that SB probably doesn't have a king. You're losing to hearts and fives, both of which most likely call, and you're beating everything else, so there's no point in raising.

How'd I do?

mlagoo · #7 10-28-2005, 01:02 AM

i mean

i agree with the limp preflop

i like the flop raise

i like the turn call (at this point, he could easily have hearts, lets have a cheap showdown if hes willing to give it to you)

the river -- i mean, you got the cheap showdown. its an 11. is he really folding a 9 high flush here? is he really folding a 5 here? I would bet the answer is "no" to both of these. so i'd just call.

ChrisV · #8 10-28-2005, 01:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
(at this point, he could easily have hearts, lets have a cheap showdown if hes willing to give it to you)

[/ QUOTE ]

If he has hearts, why is he min betting out? Is that usually a line you take when you hit flushes?

He wants to suggest he has hearts, because he's the one hoping for a cheap showdown. A typical hand here would be something like 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] where calling is a disaster.

golfcchs · #9 10-28-2005, 01:16 AM

I just call the river and mabey raise pre flop with both UTG's folding.

jeffraider · #10 10-28-2005, 01:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]

If he has hearts, why is he min betting out?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, no competent player is ever firing 30 chips into a 280 chip pot, so you basically know you're dealing with a weak player, which means he could very well have made the nut flush on the turn, or ANYTHING. I don't think you can try to figure this guy out, just take the cheap cards he's giving you and see what the hell he was doing at your nice and cheap showdown.