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#1
07-17-2005, 10:56 PM
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My WSOP experience (a lot of hands, could use some help on a few)
I posted this story on my other forum, I guess i'll post the whole story here as well. For those who dont recognize me, im a lurker/occasional poster in the small stakes no limit section, but i played in the world series main event and there are a few interesting hands im not sure about that i think some of the more experienced tournament players could help me with.
this will be very long, thanks if you bother reading through it and give advice, i hope my hands are readable for you guys. On day 3, I got to my table about 20-30 minutes early. As players arrived, I watched them carefully and was able to get a pretty good read on them before a hand was even played. Here is the table I had with my reads on the players: Seat 1: mexican guy. He was a pokerstars player. Seemed tight, overplayed/overbet good hands. Not capable of making a big lay down. Seat 2: Older guy, from NY, seemed tight, but not good. Also overplayed good hands, not capable of lay down. Seat 3: big, young italian guy from NY. The second I saw him I knew he was an awful player. Seat 4: very tight player. kept doing some silly chip trick over and over to try and gain some sort of respect. he was tight and dumb, i dont think anyone respected him at all. Seat 5: tight player, made decent laydowns, but not real big ones, got too involved with decent hands, never really got it going all day. seat 6: me, aka phil hellmuth jr. seat 7: Darius, older hispanic guy, very good player, aggressive, sometimes loose, sometimes tight, capable of playing both styles. gained a chip lead early and then pushed the table around a bit. seat 8: old fat guy. kinda tight, kinda aggressive, not really good, got lucky to double up a couple times, completely overbet his good hands, easy to read. seat 9: young swedish player, good player, mixed it up between tight/loose aggressive, hard to read. seat 10: old guy, kinda tight, not all that good, decent player. When the action finally started, the play was mostly tight. Almost every pot was won before the river, there wasnt really a big showdown till about 10 hands in, when Darius, the player to my left, won a decent sized pot against the shitty guy from NYC with a set of 999. This gave him an early 13000+ chips and the ability to start pushing the rest of the table around. hand 1: Blinds 25/50 After an orbit and a half of folding, I pick up AKo in the BB. Sweden limps UTG+1. Folds to me. I raise to 150. Sweden calls. Flop AT8 rainbow. I bet out 250. Sweden raises to 700. Up to this point, he had been playing tight, had won a decent sized pot off another player, and lost a decent sized pot. In the hand he lost, he check raised on the flop, then slowed down considerably on the turn. Taking this into consideration, i decided to smooth call. Turn 2. I check, he bets out 1600. This was basically a pot sized bet. I thought for about 30 seconds and folded. It kinda felt like a set or two pair. My gut said he had AQ, but he played it much faster than his previous hand where he had TP, so I didnt want to call down and lose half my stack 15 minutes in. he later told me he had a set with 88. I dont think I really misplayed this hand, perhaps I should have made my decision on the flop and saved 450 or committed more chips, but I decided based on past events that I should call and see his action on the turn. I decided to take it easy and cool off for another orbit. I folded the next bunch of hands, let others steal pots from each other. I had only played 1 hand about 25 hands in. hand 2: blinds 25/50 my stack: ~9000 I then picked up 79h in the CO. Action folded around to me. I raised to 200 attempting to steal. Folds to sweden in BB, he calls. Flop 348 rainbow. he checks, I make a continuation bet of 250, he calls. Turn J. he checks again. I thought about taking another stab but decided to instead take the free card and try to hit my inside straight draw. River Q. he checks. I felt a bet would be an obvious steal attempt, and if he called me on the flop, he could call again, so I checked, and mucked to his 55. I dont think I really misplayed this hand either. Maybe I should have taken a second stab on the turn or river but at this point i was down about 1700 chips so I decided to try to preserve my stack. The rest of the 25/50 level I didnt play many hands. I won blinds with KK, AK and AQ. I limped with a few small pairs and suited connectors, was raised by Darius on my left every time, and missed every time. The 20 minute break after level 1 couldnt come soon enough. I was down to 8400 chips and I didnt really make any mistakes. I took a walk during the break and decided to stop limping with anything but small pairs. This meant every time I entered a pot it would be with a raise, mainly because Darius was raising every pot I limped because of his now 15k stack. Sweden also built up his stack a bit and was raising the pots Darius didnt. having the 2 aggressive players on my left and all the tight mother fuckers on my right would be a burden, but I decided to play tighter and more aggressive in the coming levels. This meant no suited connectors in early or middle position, no sketchy marginal hands either. Level 2 started slow. I folded a rounds worth of hands to start. hand 3: Blinds 50/100 my stack: ~8200 Sweden limps UTG. folds to CO. CO raises to 400. I look down at AQs on the button. I called because the CO had raised a few previous flops and folded on the flop to action. Sweden calls. Flop 5h6c7s. Pot: 1350 Sweden checks, CO checks, I check. Turn 10s. Sweden bets 600. I call. River 2h. Sweden bets 1200. I fold. My mistake here was on the flop. There were 2 checks to me, I had called knowing the CO folded when he missed the flop and I didnt bet it. A bet of about 600 probably would have won me the pot right there with not much risk. I had to call on the turn with 2 overs and the nut flush draw, and I had to fold the river; but if I made a mistake, it was on the flop and not preflop. Hand 4: Blinds 50/100 my stack: ~7700 MP1 calls, MP3 calls, folds to me in BB. I have A6d, I check. Pot: 350 Flop 7d7h5d. I lead out with a bet of 200. Mp1 calls. Mp3 folds. Turn 8c. I check, Mp1 bets 600, I call. River 4h. I check, mp1 checks, my straight wins v his A8. I should have made a value bet on the river for about 600. he would be getting 3.5:1 pot odds with top pair and would call. This was a mistake. It is a HUGE necessity to accumulate chips whenever you can, I needed that extra 600, it would have pushed me over 9000. I won a few more hands late in the level to get my stack up to about 9400, which I was ok with considering nobody had been knocked off the table yet and I hadnt really caught cards or gotten in good situations. Level 3 started with me in the BB. I won a pot here and there to get my stack up over 10000 finally. I felt like I was starting to get into my zone and was picking up steam. Hand 5: Blinds 100/200 my stack: ~10200 utg min raises to 400. 1 call. I call in CO with KQh. button/blins fold. Flop 458, 2 hearts. Pot: 1500 UTG bets 600, fold, I call. Turn 3s. Pot: 2700. utg checks, I bet 1000, utg raises to 2000, I call. River 7d. UTG reaches for chips, I throw my hand away. This hand knocked me down a lot, I basically lost 1/3 of my chips. The previous time this player had min raised, he showed 33 and said he had gotten pocket threes about 4 times already and finally decided to minraise. So his minraise seemed weak to me. My call with KQh preflop was ok. My call on the flop was also ok. I was getting 3.5:1 odds with 2 overs and the second nut draw, I felt it was an obvious call. My initial reaction on the turn was WHY DIDNT I JUST TAKE THE FREE CARD??????? But afterwards, I thought about pushing. folding was clearly not an option here as I was getting well over 5:1 odds, but I thought I would gain a lot of fold equity here. A tight player reraises a checkraise all in?? The reason I didnt do it was because I had trouble putting him on a hand after that. I wasnt sure if he had hit a set, had an overpair like 99 or TT, had AK or whatnot. I think pushing would have been ok because i Likely had 15 outs and I think I could have pushed him off some hands, but I couldnt pull the trigger, I thought he would call with a hand that was worth a turn check raise (albeit a MIN RAISE). he later admitted he had a pocket pair, which is extremely vague, but my guess is on 99. Maybe some more experienced tournament players have some good insight on this hand, I've thought about it a while and I'm not sure what I should have done. hand 6: Blinds 100/200 my stack: ~6500 Darius limped UTG. folds to me, I check with Q5c. Flop: QJ4, 1 club. Pot: 500. I bet 300, Darius calls. Turn 4c. I bet 600, darius calls. river 7s. I bet 1000, darius thinks for a while and folds. My bet on the flop was good, I had top pair and needed to find out where I was. My bet on the turn was also very good. The 4c was a great card for me: not only did it give me a flush draw but it killed my worthless kicker. My mistake was on the river. I think Darius had either T9 or some type of jack. I had projected a weak tight image up to this point and I think he was calling with an intention of stealing on the river (remember he is a very aggressive player). I think i should have checked the river, then called a bet. I was most certainly ahead there, only behind to QJ, KQ, AQ, 4x (discounting overpairs). This would have won me the maximum amount. Tournament play is so much about maximizing every situation you are in, and I needed to check that river to do that. After losing a few of my blinds, my stack was about 7400. I was ok with this, if I could get in a good situation and double up I would be fine. At this point 2 players had been eliminated from the table so I knew doubling up was a possibility, people were starting to make looser calls. then my slow death starts. hand 7: Blinds 100/200 My stack: ~7400 MP1 raises to 600. Folds to me in BB. I have QQ. I smooth call. Flop: J72. I bet out for 1200. He raises me to 3600. this is the guy who min raised me when I missed the flush draw, who checked down the A6 straight hand down, who min raised with 33, it just seemed like such a strong bet coming from him. I sit there for about 45 seconds, start laughing, say I cannot believe I'm going to lay this down, flip the Queens face up, he stares at me then flips up aces. I dont think there was a possible way for me to lose less money on this hand. It really was a huge hit to my stack. However, this was a HUGE laydown. Not because I folded an overpair, that's commonplace in cash games. but because I folded an overpair after committing over 25% of my chips and being short stacked. This fold gained me a lot of respect at the table which would probably allow for some good potential stealing situations for me (they would take hands i played aggressively very seriously), which I desperately needed, cause I was now down to just about 5500 going into the break. Level 4 started with blinds at 100/200 and an ante of 25. I came out firing, I stole a few pots with nothing coming off the laydown from the previous session. These pots were much bigger because of the additional antes, so I managed to get my stack up in the mid 6000's. But, our hero had a different fate, death was quickly approaching. Hand 8: Blinds 100/200 25 ante my stack: ~6500 Folds to me, I pick up AQs in the CO. I raise to 600, Sweden calls in the BB. Flop: AQ6, 2 clubs. Sweden checks, I bet 1100. Sweden raises to 3000. I push, he calls and flips up AQo, with one club. Turn 4c. River Kc. Death to runner runner. Such a fitting end to my day. The only flop I hit huge on another player hits huge on as well and in fact has me drawing to a split. Regardless of the minor errors I had made before this, I was going broke on this hand. Sweden had a stack of about 16000 when he busted me, which pushed him up over the 20k mark. I was short stacked at this point, but the split would have put me up near 7000 with the antes/small blind, and although I couldnt win the hand, losing the hand was a 23:1 shot. I got up, left the Rio, took a shuttle back and went to bed at 8:00. Most devastating beat ive ever taken in my life. I think overall I played pretty well. I made some minor errors here and there which could have gained me a few more chips, but poker is a game where you cant always win even if you play perfect. Showing short term results, especially in a field of over 5600 is very unlikely, but i'm looking forward to playing in more tournaments in the future and improving my tournament play (i'm mostly a cash games player). 
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#2
07-18-2005, 03:08 PM
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Re: My WSOP experience (a lot of hands, could use some help on a few)
[ QUOTE ]
As players arrived, I watched them carefully and was able to get a pretty good read on them before a hand was even played. [/ QUOTE ] I don't believe you could get a "pretty good read" on all your opponents just from observing them before the cards are dealt. I'll concede there might be some small correlation between a player's general appearance, ethnic ancestry, etc. and their style of play, but it really is only a small correlation. Based on your post, you treat that information as more important than how they actually play their cards! [ QUOTE ] This gave him an early 13000+ chips and the ability to start pushing the rest of the table around. [/ QUOTE ] Huh? With blinds at 25/50 and most players having 10K or so, why would an extra 3K allow this guy to push the rest of the table around? [ QUOTE ] hand 2: blinds 25/50 my stack: ~9000 I then picked up 79h in the CO. Action folded around to me. I raised to 200 attempting to steal. Folds to sweden in BB, he calls. Flop 348 rainbow. he checks, I make a continuation bet of 250, he calls. [/ QUOTE ] With stacks so deep, your continuation bet needs to be larger. On that flop, when you bet 250 into the 425 pot, your opponent can at least call you with whatever two cards he called your preflop raise with. You should bet around 400. [ QUOTE ] Turn J. he checks again. I thought about taking another stab but decided to instead take the free card and try to hit my inside straight draw. [/ QUOTE ] Checking here is okay. [ QUOTE ] River Q. he checks. I felt a bet would be an obvious steal attempt, and if he called me on the flop, he could call again, so I checked, and mucked to his 55. [/ QUOTE ] The queen on the river is a great card for you considering that you raised preflop. When he checks, you need to bet, something like 2/3 the pot. There are lots of hands he could have that he will fold to the river bet. [ QUOTE ] I dont think I really misplayed this hand either. Maybe I should have taken a second stab on the turn or river but at this point i was down about 1700 chips so I decided to try to preserve my stack. [/ QUOTE ] In other words you decided to play conservatively because you were "stuck"? If you're saying that you would have bluffed the river had your stack been 11,700 rather than 8,300, what is the possible rationale for that? [ QUOTE ] hand 3: Blinds 50/100 my stack: ~8200 Sweden limps UTG. folds to CO. CO raises to 400. I look down at AQs on the button. I called because the CO had raised a few previous flops and folded on the flop to action. Sweden calls. Flop 5h6c7s. Pot: 1350 Sweden checks, CO checks, I check. Turn 10s. Sweden bets 600. I call. River 2h. Sweden bets 1200. I fold. My mistake here was on the flop. There were 2 checks to me, I had called knowing the CO folded when he missed the flop and I didnt bet it. A bet of about 600 probably would have won me the pot right there with not much risk. I had to call on the turn with 2 overs and the nut flush draw, and I had to fold the river; but if I made a mistake, it was on the flop and not preflop. [/ QUOTE ] This is an interesting hand. Reraising preflop would have been okay but calling was also reasonable. I agree that you should have bet the flop when they checked to you. On the turn, when Sweden bet I assume that CO folded? If so, I think you can put in a raise here. Normally with the nut flush draw you wouldn't make a semibluff raise like that in NL because of the possibility of being reraised, but here your opponent won't reraise without a straight (which is unlikely). Most likely he just has one pair. I think if you raise to 1800 or so on the turn, he will usually fold right there. If he does call you have several outs to the nuts plus overcard outs which might be good. If you don't hit a flush on the river, then just check behind.
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