Turn Raise

Danenania · #1 11-09-2005, 12:27 PM

MP1 is very loose passive. BB looks like a standard unimaginitive tag.

Party Poker (7 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Hero completes, BB raises, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, MP1 calls, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, MP1 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, MP1 calls, Hero raises

Trix · #2 11-09-2005, 12:48 PM

Looks fine against alot of unimaginitive tags.
I´d check-call the river if BB folds. If he calls, then you are in a tough spot.

stoxtrader · #3 11-09-2005, 01:01 PM

one thing to think about in these situations is to call the flop and then think about a c/r on the turn. You get more information with the card that comes, AND the action with 2 others in the pot.

kind of a part ed miller wait for bigger equity later, combined with whatevr...

twowords · #4 11-09-2005, 01:04 PM

Wow thats real fancy for me, but it makes sense. Even if you lose to the loose passive guy more than half the time its still EV++ since this should fold the TAG very often here. Poor TAG.

krimson · #5 11-09-2005, 01:08 PM

It looks so spewey but looking at it piece by piece seems to make sense. We can put MP1 on a flush or straight draw, or underpair or something of that sort. BB looks to have 99,JJ-KK. We're likely behind the BB, but the ace is perfect to represent AT. I'd need to be at the table to actually have a feel for whether he would fold or not with QQ/KK.

JimmyJazz1 · #6 11-09-2005, 01:12 PM

Stox, with such a vulnerable hand on a flop like that it doesnt make sense to wait until the turn to throw in a raise. The flop has 2 hearts and many gut shot possibilities. Also any A or K could ruin your hand, so i'd say raise sooner rather than later to charge the fish bets. The Tag will fold a worse hand no question on the turn to a C/R and call you down with a better or 3 bet you with a monster.

Danenania · #7 11-09-2005, 01:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
one thing to think about in these situations is to call the flop and then think about a c/r on the turn. You get more information with the card that comes, AND the action with 2 others in the pot.

kind of a part ed miller wait for bigger equity later, combined with whatevr...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an interesting idea but don't I risk him checking overcards on the turn too often when I try to do this? It seems like risking a free card could be a pretty harmful prospect.

Danenania · #8 11-09-2005, 01:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Looks fine against alot of unimaginitive tags.
I´d check-call the river if BB folds. If he calls, then you are in a tough spot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I could just check/fold the river if BB calls. It will nearly always means he has KK-JJ and sniffed me out or Axs in hearts. KQs/QJs in hearts also fit, and I guess it's also slightly possible for him to have QTs/JTs/T9s) but he certainly wouldn't bet any of these worse/splitting hands on the riv after I check again.

If BB folds I'm not sure I understand the case for a check/call. MP is loose passive and can still have a lot of weaker pairs even after the turn raise. I think I'll be better off value betting than looking to pick off an unlikely bluff.

RunDownHouse · #9 11-09-2005, 01:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Stox, with such a vulnerable hand...

[/ QUOTE ]
This doesn't seem consistent with this:

[ QUOTE ]
i'd say raise sooner rather than later to charge the fish bets.

[/ QUOTE ]
He's not c/r'ing for protection, as the first quote seems to advocate. Its for value.

#10 11-09-2005, 02:25 PM

If you had position on the guy and were planning on taking your T to showdown I'd love this. As is, however, he'd better like finding reasons to fold. Also, unless the guy's out of line, you can get away from your hand on the turn.