WSOP Circuit Las Vegas--where the frig is everyone?

[dlk9s]

On top of the WPT and WSOP tournies going on right now, there's also the California State Championship. I saw a few big names on those tourney rosters.

[MicroBob]

California is the one Ben Affleck won last year if I recall correctly.

If you look on pokerpages.com you can see about a ZILLION different tourneys.
The EPT and other european tourneys too of course.


The saturation is significant.
I don't think it's going to be the 'death of poker' though.

some of the tourneys just will be less likely to survive.
But even in a 100 player field...are they really losing money on the event?
The dealers make minimum wage pretty much plus whatever is tipped (in the tourney as well as any side-games) and the floor and management make however much they make....and I assume they have the flexibility to send people home if they find they have an excess of personnel.


Also - if I recall correctly...Hellmuth mentioned in one his books that there was some big buy-in tournament at the Bike in 2000 or 2001 (pre TV boom) that got 12 players or something like that and then 2 or 3 years later that exact same tournament got 500 players.
Something close to those numbers anyway.


100 players doesn't sound like much but that's just because of the very large fields we get in some of the big one's these days.

5 years ago if you said that by 2005 we would have 25 or more tourneys every year of $5k-$10k buy-in and that each one would have AT LEAST 100 players and that some would have 300-600 players you would probably say "where on earth are all of those players with THAT much money going to come from?"
If I tossed-in the notion that the WSOP would have 45 total events including a main-event drawing almost 6k players and that there would also be a couple of events in the $15k and $25k range (Bellagio 5-diamond and WPT championship) and we would STILL get all the players to play the 25 'other' tourneys you would have said, 'Ummm....I don't think so retard. But I'd happily take a couple hits of whatever the hell it is you're smoking.'

[sketchy1]

David Plastik told me the structures were changed. They added the 25-25 level and a few others I believe. He said Max Pescatori told him that the play at the final tables was great.

These circuit events are brand new events. The Borgata is slightly established and draws real well. I think the players are just going to where the money is, and the WPT events are drawing well right now.

I think it has less to do with the circuit and more to do with who is running the events, and also how they are drawing. I think the 10k events will always draw 10 tables and a lot of professionals, no matter where they are, but you're going to see a lot more of this type of thing.

The WPT has an event at the Bellagio coming up in October that runs right around the same time of the WSOPC in Indiana. I wouldn't be too surprised if that event draws even less than this one.

I think the main factor though, is the fact that these are NON-televised events. I don't know exactly what happened but apparently ESPN doesn't have a contract for the new WSOPC events or osmething, and they are just doing very very light coverage of these events. No TV coverage = no field.

[sketchy1]

I guarantee you if it was purely a choice of which circuit to play, most would rather go to the WSOP than the WPT.

Up until this event, the WPT wasn't even allowing logo wear. That's one reason their events in Reno and Paris suffered such a bad turnout.

[sketchy1]

The last thing that's going to happen is poker dying. Anyone who thinks that doesn't understand the business.

Online poker is keeping live poker thriving. There's millions each year in satellites that are filling up these fields.

What will happen is the WSOPC will have to cut some events, along with the WPT. We'll probably see one 10k event every other week still, but it will be a much more condensed schedule compared to now. Also, I think the WSOPC is going to learn that scheduling their events literally days before or after other events is suicide. They should be staggering these events at least a week apart. They can't possibly fill up an non-televised 10k event without much satellite time.

[Quicksilvre]

[ QUOTE ]
Also - if I recall correctly...Hellmuth mentioned in one his books that there was some big buy-in tournament at the Bike in 2000 or 2001 (pre TV boom) that got 12 players or something like that and then 2 or 3 years later that exact same tournament got 500 players.

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I believe he was referring to the Legends of Poker Main Event. There were 35 entrants in 2001, and about 700 this year--a 20-fold increase.

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The WPT has an event at the Bellagio coming up in October that runs right around the same time of the WSOPC in Indiana. I wouldn't be too surprised if that event draws even less than this one.

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See, I expected THAT one to get a bitty field. Before this week, I would've said 75-100 players, but if it's across the WPT, it might not fill four tables, or even three.

[Jedster]

[ QUOTE ]
I guarantee you if it was purely a choice of which circuit to play, most would rather go to the WSOP than the WPT.

Up until this event, the WPT wasn't even allowing logo wear. That's one reason their events in Reno and Paris suffered such a bad turnout.

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It don't matter how big the logo is if the event isn't on TV.

[KDawgCometh]

[ QUOTE ]

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The WPT has an event at the Bellagio coming up in October that runs right around the same time of the WSOPC in Indiana. I wouldn't be too surprised if that event draws even less than this one.

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See, I expected THAT one to get a bitty field. Before this week, I would've said 75-100 players, but if it's across the WPT, it might not fill four tables, or even three.

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no, the WPT at the bellagio will draw well. Who is gonna go to Louisville Ky when they can stay at home and play in a much more prestigious event. I think one thing that we will see happen is that some of the ME's will cut down on the buy-in at some point, and the wsopc will have to stop having events going head to head with the WPT.

One thing the WPT will have to do is work on the blind structure some more so that we get more play so that we see the level of play that happened in season1

[MicroBob]

I think you underestimate the potential of a WSOP event in a new area to generate excitement.

All of your Cincy/Louisville/Indiana/Kentucky players in the B&M forums have already been talking it up big-time.
Lots of people from that area who want to play an event or two 'just like the WSOP' (or something like that) should have some interest in it I would think.

Fewer big-name pros will be there to be sure...but I think there will be plenty of satellite action for the main-event there and it will do better than people imagine.

Also consider that some southerners who were planning on going to the now cancelled event in Biloxi might head up to Louisville instead.

[Quicksilvre]

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no, the WPT at the bellagio will draw well.

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I was referring to the Indiana event. MicroBob, is there really that much excitement over the event? Not that I'm disputing you, I just figured that Indiana would be a comparative poker backwater. I didn't even know poker was legal in Indiana (unless it's on a reservation).