A JJ hand

[AceofSpades]

Checking the flop is horrible. You're giving any king or queen a free shot at outdrawing you. If he has a pocket pair, your read said he'd probably push preflop with it.

I figure one of two things will happen

A. He's going to check/raise you for all his chips and he has an ace, or is bluffing

B. He's missed the flop and folding to a non-minimum bet

I'd bet the flop for about 200-400, if he pushes I would consider folding, or call if I think he's just making moves or desperate.

I think 70% of the time he will fold the flop when you bet.

[Dave D]

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That may be weak tight, but w/ a smooth caller

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There was nothing smooth about this caller.

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I still think you have a chance to fold a weak ace by betting out,

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No. He has 700 left at the 100 blind level. If he called off 30% of his stack with A rag I dont think he plans on check folding an A high flop. I mean, funnier things have happen, but...

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and I'm not calling a push on the turn after checking the flop.


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Fair enough.

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Come to think of it, I've always been shaky about the term "smooth caller", I always thought it meant just calling when you have a good hand, could I get some elaboration, Elaboration? Also, generally what you mean by this comment too.

I mean, I guess I bascially see this hand as having two approaches, betting now in hopes of taking it down right now, or check/folding to the inevitable push/bet (which if he bets, you have to either fold or raise/push for the rest of his chips, I seriously doubt he bets enough for check/calling down to be a real option). On the flop, I see very little chance of getting a showdown for cheap, and I see those are really the only two viable options.

I'm personally inclined to take the first approach, because yeah, I've definatly seen idiots call PF and then fold. Villian could have called w/ a low pair, KQ, KJ, JT (though I realize a jack is unlikely), or sometimes just any two. People just don't like giving up their blinds to what looks like a steal.

This is an ugly situation to be in, but I think that I have to at least take a chance to take this pot right now, rather than give it up to a turn push.

[Elaboration]

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This is an ugly situation to be in, but I think that I have to at least take a chance to take this pot right now, rather than give it up to a turn push.

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My basic contention is this.

If he has an A, he is not folding to any sort of cont. bet and he doesn't have enough chips to make me fold if he raises for his last 250-300 chips.
He could have many non ace hands that I beat that he simply folds to my bet, which I guess is ok, but I'm really thinking how nice his remaining chips would look in my stack if I do happen to be ahead.
If he had more chips the solution is easier..fire the continuation bet and get away from the hand if it's clear I am behind, but since I cant do that here, well, I think there could have been some merit to checking, but am not sure.

A check induces a bluff and thus maximizes value the times I am ahead.

[Pasterbator]

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A check induces a bluff and thus maximizes value the times I am ahead.

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I feel the same way. I would prefer to make this move with QQ, as there is only one card to fear. With JJ, i still check behind, and expect him to push the turn with 22.

...And if he had a small pair, and trips up on the turn, thats too bad (BUT HE STILL MIGHT HAVE CALLED ON THE FLOP)

[Dave D]

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This is an ugly situation to be in, but I think that I have to at least take a chance to take this pot right now, rather than give it up to a turn push.

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My basic contention is this.

If he has an A, he is not folding to any sort of cont. bet and he doesn't have enough chips to make me fold if he raises for his last 250-300 chips.
He could have many non ace hands that I beat that he simply folds to my bet, which I guess is ok, but I'm really thinking how nice his remaining chips would look in my stack if I do happen to be ahead.
If he had more chips the solution is easier..fire the continuation bet and get away from the hand if it's clear I am behind, but since I cant do that here, well, I think there could have been some merit to checking, but am not sure.

A check induces a bluff and thus maximizes value the times I am ahead.

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Yeah, I would sacrifice winning those extra chips the times you are ahead, for the (albeit small) possibility he folds an ace, or some sort of strong draw on the flop. I don't want to give him a free card with which he completes a straight, or two pair. I think not giving free card+possible fold equity outweigh maximizing basically autocalling the turn (if I understand your post correctly).

[fnurt]

There are two possible lines here:

1) Push, and hope he doesn't have an ace.

2) Check behind, and hope he gives you some action on the turn.

Betting something like 400 is pointless because you cannot fold to a raise of only 300 more. Likewise, thinking there is any line that will get him to lay down an ace is pointless.

If you are ahead on the flop, he most likely has no more than 2 or 3 outs on the turn. That's a risk I am willing to take, so I check behind and call a turn bet if he pushes.

[Elaboration]

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Yeah, I would sacrifice winning those extra chips the times you are ahead, for the (albeit small) possibility he folds an ace,

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So basically you are advocating winning the min/losing the max v.s. winning the max/losing the same(max)?

[DireWolf]

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There are two possible lines here:

1) Push, and hope he doesn't have an ace.

2) Check behind, and hope he gives you some action on the turn.

Betting something like 400 is pointless because you cannot fold to a raise of only 300 more. Likewise, thinking there is any line that will get him to lay down an ace is pointless.

If you are ahead on the flop, he most likely has no more than 2 or 3 outs on the turn. That's a risk I am willing to take, so I check behind and call a turn bet if he pushes.

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Ding Ding, We have a winner

[FrogMouth]

You have just over 10bb, push PF to aviod this situation. In the CO it may look to some like a bilnd steal and you will get called by all kinds of stuff in a $30. Now that you in it, I can't see myself giving up here. If he has an ace, I'm loosing my stack. To maximize profits, check to induce a bluff from a smaller pair. You don't want to fold the hands you beat, you want them to bet.

[Elaboration]

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You have just over 10bb, push PF to aviod this situation.

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I have 2300 and the bb is t100.