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  #11  
Old 08-26-2005, 02:35 AM
Danenania Danenania is offline
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Default Re: 77 Say When

Given that he is 3-betting a laggy MP openraise I think his range should be expanded a bit more than that, although I do see your point. I definitely didn't consider his PFR enough before deciding.
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  #12  
Old 08-26-2005, 02:37 AM
ALL1N ALL1N is offline
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Default Re: 77 Say When

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And you really think PF is iffy? I've been calling with any PP's in this spot for awhile now. Is this way too loose?

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yeah, the 3-bettor has a 12 PFR. that's pretty much AA-TT, AK/AQ. your implied odds aren't remotely close enough to play it for that and I doubt there's much value in playing it for pair value

[/ QUOTE ]

Ooh please make that AA-99 or everything I've said is flawed!
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  #13  
Old 08-26-2005, 03:01 AM
sthief09 sthief09 is offline
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Default Re: 77 Say When

also I think I overestimate my ability to guide small-medium pairs to the river. sure pretty often you get your money in on the flop with the best of it, but when you're ahead you're usually putting in 1 bet (unless the board is particularly nice looking) on the turn/river and when behind often 2 or 3
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  #14  
Old 08-26-2005, 03:05 AM
bobbyi bobbyi is offline
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Default Re: 77 Say When

[ QUOTE ]
And you really think PF is iffy? I've been calling with any PP's in this spot for awhile now. Is this way too loose?

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Remember that you are not closing the action here. There is a "laggy preflop" player still act, so he might well cap. You really do not want to be paying three bets to see the flop here three-handed.
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  #15  
Old 08-26-2005, 03:06 AM
Danenania Danenania is offline
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Default Re: 77 Say When

Wellll, I decided that this type of player probably would slowplay AA or 99 most of the time on that flop, so I decided to checkraise the river. He 3-bet, I called, and he flipped QQ. Guess his finger was stuck to the raise button on the flop.

Seems like a judgment call about whether to check/call or checkraise the riv. Bet/calling is decidedly inferior if you think about which hands will raise, which will call, and which will bet if I check.
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  #16  
Old 08-26-2005, 04:04 AM
BreakEvenPlayer BreakEvenPlayer is offline
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Default Re: 77 Say When

I like river checkraise. It really feels like AQ with this guy's stats although he raised his set on the flop here.
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  #17  
Old 08-26-2005, 07:16 AM
kurosh kurosh is offline
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Default Re: 77 Say When

I feel retarded asking this but I'm tired and it's bothering me for some reason.

Assuming MP only calls, you're getting 7.5:2.
3.75:1 and it's 7.5:1 to flop a set. You need to make up 3.75BB postflop if you only play for set value, right?
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  #18  
Old 08-26-2005, 08:35 AM
stinkypete stinkypete is offline
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Default Re: 77 Say When

[ QUOTE ]
I feel retarded asking this but I'm tired and it's bothering me for some reason.

Assuming MP only calls, you're getting 7.5:2.
3.75:1 and it's 7.5:1 to flop a set. You need to make up 3.75BB postflop if you only play for set value, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

no, you need to make more since you'll flop your set and lose sometimes.
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  #19  
Old 08-26-2005, 08:36 AM
sthief09 sthief09 is offline
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Default Re: 77 Say When

that's assuming the set never loses. when they do they cost a lot. 10-1 is a fair goal
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  #20  
Old 08-26-2005, 09:15 AM
MAxx MAxx is offline
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Default Re: 77 Say When

[ QUOTE ]
that's assuming the set never loses. when they do they cost a lot. 10-1 is a fair goal

[/ QUOTE ]

I like that 10-1 estimate. So you are saying you would need to "make up" 3.75 + 2.5= 6.25 SB's? So in D's example what would the final pot size need to be to attain this? Do we remove the bets that D puts in himself? Is it just that D needs to get $65 total from other contestants when hitting a set?

I almost always fold pf here unless it was a blind stealing situation because I did not feel like i was getting proper set odds with implied odds... in addition to the 12pfr% 3betting is not a good thing. I typically use 5-1 as my marker. So in D's example, I would not play unless there was an additional 3bet coldcaller in addition to these other guys.

I am just trying to firm up the proper way to calculate how much you need to "make up". Or at least a sound thought process.
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