Call all in on a draw?

[Elaboration]

Party 34k Guarantee
Blinds 75/150, 2200 started and we are down to about 750, but still a long, long way from the money.

I'm in soild shape with good table control.

Seat 1: treyd72 (3264)
Seat 2: davejackson1 (1830)
Seat 3: SuperBrodie (620)
Seat 4: AceTamer (7280)
Seat 5: Hero (4102)
Seat 6: lisaritchie (1355)
Seat 7: kolman36 (2358)
Seat 8: SpillaMajig (4453) SB
Seat 9: Lindley7 (2945) BB

I'm dealt 98 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the CO

JJSPORTS calls (150)
treyd72 calls (150)
davejackson1 folds.
SuperBrodie folds.
AceTamer folds.
Hero calls (150)
lisaritchie folds.
kolman36 calls (150)
SpillaMajig raises (675) to 750

Villian is tight, with normal aggression, but predictable. Probably AK-AQ, AA-TT, maybe AJ, 88-99

Lindley7 folds.
JJSPORTS folds.
treyd72 calls (600)

He is new to the table, not sure what this meant. Had not seen anything out of line.

I was planning to fold until he called, but...

hero calls t600

Flop: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (Pot: 2550)

SpillaMajig bets (3703)
SpillaMajig is all-In.
treyd72 calls (2514)

Pot: t8767

sb for whatever reason says "I lost".

Hero should?

[Lloyd]

This is essentially the flop you're looking for by calling with that hand. You're likely up against an overpair and who knows what from the caller, maybe two overs hoping to get lucky. You're getting just under 2.5 to 1 odds and are 1.3 to 1 to make your straight or flush - both of which are likely good. I think it's a good risk to take and I'd call.

I think if you have good table control and w/ the blinds only 75/150 you can afford to fold away the 600 pf. That would be a great hand to raise all in but not over call.

I would say that a good portion of the time your flush is not good b/c one of the two has AK clubs or AQclubs. Not saying it is, but its a possibility, then you'd NEED a 7. Plus you are only about a coin flip to hit if indeed ur flush is good.

come to think about it, for the amount of money you're going to make if you hit . . wouldn't be a bad call. You would be in great shape if u hit. It's a tough one, but I guess i'd have to fold in that situation, but u could argue either way.

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
Party 34k Guarantee
Blinds 75/150, 2200 started and we are down to about 750, but still a long, long way from the money.

I'm in soild shape with good table control.

Seat 1: treyd72 (3264)
Seat 2: davejackson1 (1830)
Seat 3: SuperBrodie (620)
Seat 4: AceTamer (7280)
Seat 5: Hero (4102)
Seat 6: lisaritchie (1355)
Seat 7: kolman36 (2358)
Seat 8: SpillaMajig (4453) SB
Seat 9: Lindley7 (2945) BB

I'm dealt 98 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the CO

JJSPORTS calls (150)
treyd72 calls (150)
davejackson1 folds.
SuperBrodie folds.
AceTamer folds.
Hero calls (150)
lisaritchie folds.
kolman36 calls (150)
SpillaMajig raises (675) to 750

Villian is tight, with normal aggression, but predictable. Probably AK-AQ, AA-TT, maybe AJ, 88-99

Lindley7 folds.
JJSPORTS folds.
treyd72 calls (600)

He is new to the table, not sure what this meant. Had not seen anything out of line.

I was planning to fold until he called, but...

hero calls t600

Flop: 5 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (Pot: 2550)

SpillaMajig bets (3703)
SpillaMajig is all-In.
treyd72 calls (2514)

Pot: t8767

sb for whatever reason says "I lost".

Hero should?

[/ QUOTE ]

You really shouldn't be in this hand, either calling in the first place or calling his raise.

I think the kind of answers you're going to get to this are along the lines of the accumulator/survivor debate. Accumulators are gonna say go head call, you've got great odds to double up (I'm assuming previous poster's math is correct). But you can't always be taking those chances.

Personally I'll fold and keep my ~16 BBs.

It's obvious he's got an overcard pair or something that has you beat right now, thats why he overbet the flop so much.

BTW He probably said "I lost" b/c he's waiting for you to suck out on his high PP.

VERY TRUE.

Accumulator says call.
Survivor says fold.

And yes probably not a good hand to get into. You're only about 4-1 to flop an open ender or fush draw. You luckily caught a bit of both, which is like 6-1 (we'll say) . . .then you still ahve to draw out on the "at best coin flip" . . .bad hand to be involved in.

[Tyler Durden]

[ QUOTE ]

You really shouldn't be in this hand, either calling in the first place or calling his raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree on both counts. Hero has 4100, folding 98s in the cutoff after two limpers for 150 would be a mistake IMO.

Then there's nothing wrong w/ calling the raise either, you have position on the raiser and a great hand for cracking a big PP and doubling up.

Anyone agree/disagree?

[ekky]

im a great believer in sticking with your laurels. Why are you going to call this pre flop if you intend to fold on this flop?

I know that if I called 600 pre flop with this hand.. I would try to get all my chips in here 3 way 100% of the time.

What are you hoping to get if its not a straight draw and flush draw? you looking to flop quads?

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
im a great believer in sticking with your laurels. Why are you going to call this pre flop if you intend to fold on this flop?

I know that if I called 600 pre flop with this hand.. I would try to get all my chips in here 3 way 100% of the time.

What are you hoping to get if its not a straight draw and flush draw? you looking to flop quads?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a difference between calling a bet and calling an all in. I agree that I can't usually call PF w/o intending to continue the hand, but hes putting hero all in. See my above post for why I fold.

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You really shouldn't be in this hand, either calling in the first place or calling his raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree on both counts. Hero has 4100, folding 98s in the cutoff after two limpers for 150 would be a mistake IMO.

Then there's nothing wrong w/ calling the raise either, you have position on the raiser and a great hand for cracking a big PP and doubling up.

Anyone agree/disagree?

[/ QUOTE ]

I mean, you're only getting 2 to 1 or so on the call after the raise, nothing huge, and you're likely to miss the flop altogether. Maybe limping is ok, but again, you're hoping for probably 4 to 1 at best, likely to be 3 to 1, nothing huge. There's a good chance hero wouldn't have even posted this hand b/c he'd completly miss the flop and have to fold to the all in (which I bet was villian's plan regardless of the flop, ie a high PP).

I'll admit it, basically I'm not that confident in my post flop skills, especially with this hand, to limp, or call the raise. It's still not that late in the tourney, and I don't like to get into these spots. But that's just me.

edit I confused villian and the other actor in the hand, I thought it was HU at the flop. So my pot odds calculations are a little off. I think I still maintain my position on this hand tho.

[Jim T]

[ QUOTE ]
This is essentially the flop you're looking for by calling with that hand. You're likely up against an overpair and who knows what from the caller, maybe two overs hoping to get lucky. You're getting just under 2.5 to 1 odds and are 1.3 to 1 to make your straight or flush - both of which are likely good. I think it's a good risk to take and I'd call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I probably would have folded this hand pre-flop, but I think after the flop you have odds to call. I wouldn't be happy, but I probably make that call.

No one else has mentioned it, but your overcard outs may even be good too, though you should of course discount them pretty heavily. The SB probably has a hand like AKo. The MP guy is harder to put on a hand. 67s, pocket sevens (or even pocket eights) are not out of the question though he probably is further ahead of you than that.

Also you need to keep in mind that even if the MP player beats you, you can still have a decent number of chips (looks like 10-11 big bets at the current level) by just beating the SB's hand. (And to beat a dead horse, I don't think you have to discount your overcard outs as much against him.)