I don't like alot of this...

[brettbrettr]

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You just picked up a ton of outs. Check call the turn. What's so tricky?

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I"m sorry, I saw one more spade than there was. Reall,y I'm sorry.

As is, let's say you have 7 outs--4 aces, 3 5's--the turn is still a call. Don't call a river bet u/i.

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plus 3 6's, no?

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Umm, yeah. I'm totally at my best in this thread.

[blatz]

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He's 3 betting for a free card! Don't let him get away with it. Fold to any club on river and just check/call the turn in the highly unlikely event that he has King/better kicker.

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You nailed it. It was for a free card, and with his agression numbers, I don't think I should have let him get away with it. I can't put him on alot of most Kings, he would have raised pre flop with the good ones, and folded the bad ones.

I checked to him, he took his free card and rivered the flush. I was questioning this hand because, while normally I would check this turn, against such an aggressive player, I feel I should have challenged him.

[A_C_Slater]

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He's 3 betting for a free card! Don't let him get away with it. Fold to any club on river and just check/call the turn in the highly unlikely event that he has King/better kicker.

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You nailed it. It was for a free card, and with his agression numbers, I don't think I should have let him get away with it. I can't put him on alot of most Kings, he would have raised pre flop with the good ones, and folded the bad ones.

I checked to him, he took his free card and rivered the flush. I was questioning this hand because, while normally I would check this turn, against such an aggressive player, I feel I should have challenged him.

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I would put him on a higher king on the flop (KJo is usually a limp against two limpers here.) But when he checks behind on the turn then you know it was a 3bet for a "free" card and you can fold to any river [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or induce a bluff if its anything else.

[sweetjazz]

Some TAGs would wait with all of their made hands to pop you on the turn after you check-raise, but some will three-bet the flop with a hand like K9s to try to take control and get a free showdown on the river. So I don't think you can be sure he has a draw, especially since there's only one plausible one out there.

It sucks that you were drawn out on, but let's look at what happened:
(1) He took a free card on the turn, costing you in EV about 0.5 - 0.7 BB (depending on whether he had the A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]).
(2) When he checks behind on the turn, you expect that he was going for a free card. When the third club comes, you can probably safely fold (note that you also cannot beat a weak hand like K8 that checked behind for a cheap showdown). OTOH, if a club does not come, I think you must check the river, with the intention of calling. I think he may try a desperation bluff, especially sensing that you may now be weak since you didn't bluff the river. If he's really sharp, he'll know to check behind with A high, but he probably wasn't calling a river bet with just A high in that case anyway.

[blatz]

I'm not sweating his hitting the club, but do you think with my straight outs, and the possibility he is on a draw there is any merit into betting into him on the turn?

[sweetjazz]

Only if you are pretty sure he would wait until the turn to pop you again if he had a king (instead of 3-betting the flop). Or if you think he would just call your turn bet with a king.

What's your turn and river plan if you bet out on the turn and are raised? If you're called?

[sy_or_bust]

Don't feel played. Your hand was fairly marginal versus CO's range of 3-betting hands, and you may have folded the turn (w/o the draw) or river anyway. If so, his free card play saves you this pot ~ 70% of the time.

A turn donkbet is my line against many strong players (who don't know what you're doing). It defines Villain's hand quite well. If you are called, the trick is to check/call most river cards. The problem here is that you can't fold to a checkraise, which means that you're better off letting Villain act. In this case he revealed weakness, which is great. If he semi-bluffs, fine, as long as you can hang on at the river.