2 50-100 hands vs. phil laak

[neon]

Hey rbk,

Wasn't it your line that I remember reading on the boards a while back for when you flop a monster out of position?

As I recall, the line is: overbet flop, check call turn, fire big on the river . . .

Anyway, I've incorporated the line into my game, and it seems like a great line to get paid off (assuming, of course, that you don't always take this line w/ your monsters oop, and that you don't only use this line w/ monsters), and this seems like a decent spot to use it.

I also tend to agree w/ turnipmonster's point, however, that a river check may be optimal against Laak in this spot, as the only way you're likely to get any more coin out of him (unless he has a queen) would be to check it to him and let him bluff at you. As played, your bet of 2K into a ~5K pot seems like a bet that wants to get called . . . I also like fsu's weak lead the turn idea, so I think either overbet, weak lead, check/raise, or overbet, check/call, betting big on the river might both have won you a bit more than you did.

I've never played anywhere near this high live, however, and only very sparingly online, and nowhere near this deep, so take this w/ a grain a salt, if you will . . .

By the way, it sounds like this game was playing three-handed, w/ Laak on your left? It must have been a bitch to play oop vs. him w/ such a deep stack, though I'm guessing the third player was enough of a soft spot that it made tangling vs. Laak on occasion more than worthwhile. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[aggie]

Hand 1:

Flop and turn look good…I think leading the river seems like suspiciously strong hand. Check the river and let him hang himself. I think he will bet with more hands than he will call with here.

Hand 2:

I agree with most other posters. I’m not a big fan of check–call / semibluff raise the turn…I think most strong players see through this…I like FSU’s thought of betting flop, and check-raising the turn.

[parttimepro]

Hand 1: I'd make my standard continuation bet of 3/4 pot on the flop. I'd make this same bet on this board with any 2 cards after raising preflop, so it gets money in the pot without giving much information about your hand.

Betting or calling the turn defines your hand as AQ or better. I think you checked, he tried to steal, you called, and he shut down. Your line is probably fine here. He's likely got middle pocket pair. If you bet again, you'll probably fold him. Only 2 hearts or QX might call--he'd probably put you on AQ-KK-AA, and wouldn't expect you to fold to a raise. Checking gets at least another $1200. You might try a small check-raise here. If he's semi-bluffing with two hearts, he'll probably call, and if he doesn't call a check-raise here, he probably won't call a bet on the river. Also, if you make a small check-raise on the turn with a monster, it sets up cheap bluffs later on, such as hand 2.

2: I'm not sure why fsu thinks this pf raise is marginal. Looks standard to me. I think if you don't bet the flop here, you pretty much need to fold to his bet. Best case scenario, you're drawing to 10 outs, none of which will get paid off that well. Worst case, you've got 7 outs, but you don't know whether the A or K is good.

What are you representing with your turn check-raise? I guess QQ might get played this way, but so might KJ, A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]X[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], AQ. What I'm saying is, he doesn't need a set to call you, and you won't necessarily push him off something like QJ. KJ, 9T, X[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]X[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] should call.

I guess I don't like it because there have to be easier ways to make money than to make marginal bluffs against skilled players.

Anyways, after I won either hand, I'd jump around and do some shadow boxing and crunches, while yelling "YEAH! YEAH!" and give Phil a big hug.

[Ulysses]

Hand 1: I lead that turn every time. You have to give him an opportunity to move some chips to take it away from you. If you check, representing nothing, he can do what he did - take a cheap stab. Having check-called the turn, I check the river and hope he takes a stab w/ complete air.

Hand 2: Overall, seems fine. I can't see you making that move w/out a good feel that he's going to fold enough. Impossible to judge that without being there. How often do you semi-bluff checkraise when you pick up a draw?

[aggie]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyways, after I won either hand, I'd jump around and do some shadow boxing and crunches, while yelling "YEAH! YEAH!" and give Phil a big hug.

[/ QUOTE ]



[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[fsuplayer]

rbk-
how many players were in the game on the 2nd hand.

i may or may not want to recant my previous statement about not liking preflop. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[ML4L]

Hey rbk,

Both hands, I think any history would be helpful, even if it's that you just sat down. More specifically, I think that his read on YOU is more important than any read on him...

Hand 1, I bet more on the flop. And, I lead the turn. Given the check-call of the turn, I would check the river or bet smaller, hoping to get raised. Your bet is too big to look like a block and too small to look like a bluff. If he did indeed have a five, I think you won near the minimum.

Hand 2, I agree with others that bet flop, check-raise turn might be a better line, but there are merits to yours. If he's more likely to raise the flop than to call to try to take it away later, I like the check-call fine. Not to mention the fact that you wouldn't mind seeing the flop go check-check. As to following through on the turn with the check-raise, I think it's a feel play that none of us can really comment on. Out of curiosity, what is the river plan if called (shut down I presume, but I'm curious as to what you would do if you hit your A or K)?

ML4L

[ML4L]

[ QUOTE ]
i may or may not want to recant my previous statement about not liking preflop. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, what exactly was your logic there? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

ML4L

[ShortySaurus]

was this at commerce tuesday night? I was there playing the 40 80 and I saw Phil playing at the NL table .... also Men Nguyen....oh yeah and lou diamond phillips but no one cares about him

[Chaostracize]

Isn't this a great example of the turn check-raise semi-bluff that makes up in equity what you lose when you actually have a monster there?