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  #11  
Old 04-04-2005, 03:03 PM
beerbandit beerbandit is offline
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Default Re: Sleeping wrong and waking up with a painful, stiff neck

[ QUOTE ]
WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE

[/ QUOTE ]

im a gambler



cheers
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  #12  
Old 04-04-2005, 03:13 PM
gumpzilla gumpzilla is offline
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Default Re: Sleeping wrong and waking up with a painful, stiff neck

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If you seriously don't have it just because it's -EV you're just stupid. Not to mention you're probably just another slug that will expect the rest of us to take care of you when something happens to you.

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Let's say it costs me $300 a month for health insurance. Suppose I just put this in a bank, and let's say I can accrue 1% interest on it. I can think of two ways in which this is inferior to health insurance:

1) If I have serious medical problems before I've spent some time building up funds, I could be in for a world of hurt. However, in my experience, hospitals/doctors will generally allow you to sign up for a pretty reasonable payment plan if that will get them paid, so I doubt this is a dealbreaker.

2) The last reason I mentioned in my previous post - you get charged more for equivalent service than the health insurance company does, and are thus potentially being ripped off. In some instances, if you know what the customary and accepted rates are for various services - this would probably amount to finding out the CPT code for your services and seeing if you can figure out what Medicare would pay, at least to within a few percent - maybe you can haggle your way out of this, but I think this is a bigger issue.

Some advantages:

1) With this method, you know you won't pay anything more than you need. If you're pretty healthy as a whole, this could be very nice.

2) Your money could gain interest.

Most people who aren't buying health insurance probably aren't doing this, but if they were, it's not clear-cut to me that it's stupid. You feel like thinking today, or just ranting?
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  #13  
Old 04-04-2005, 03:18 PM
jakethebake jakethebake is offline
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Default Re: Sleeping wrong and waking up with a painful, stiff neck

[ QUOTE ]
it's not clear-cut to me that it's stupid. You feel like thinking today, or just ranting?

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o.k. instead of a ring game, look at it like a tournament. there are times not to take the +EV choice. You take a -EV choice because it's a matter of survival. The consequences here are much worse, however. I think it's clear that anyone that justifies not having insirance because it's -EV is the one not thinking.
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  #14  
Old 04-04-2005, 03:20 PM
gumpzilla gumpzilla is offline
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Default Re: Sleeping wrong and waking up with a painful, stiff neck

Did you read anything but the last sentence of what I wrote?
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  #15  
Old 04-04-2005, 03:36 PM
jakethebake jakethebake is offline
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Default Re: Sleeping wrong and waking up with a painful, stiff neck

[ QUOTE ]
Did you read anything but the last sentence of what I wrote?

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Yea. I didn't feel the need to repost the whole thing. Do you know how much "serious medical problems" can cost? If you truly do not have coverage by choice because of this idiotic idea, then you should be cut off from any kind of charity/government-sponsored coverage and left to fend for yourself. I hate the whole inefficient, unethical, poorly-run insurance industry rip-off as much as anyone, but I'm not willing to bet my health, or that of my family, out of stupidity or stubbornness.
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  #16  
Old 04-04-2005, 03:49 PM
gumpzilla gumpzilla is offline
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Default Re: Sleeping wrong and waking up with a painful, stiff neck

[ QUOTE ]

Yea. I didn't feel the need to repost the whole thing. Do you know how much "serious medical problems" can cost? If you truly do not have coverage by choice because of this idiotic idea

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See, this suggests to me that you didn't read it, because I mention that without health insurance, I'd be out a lot of money. That is, I have insurance. So, to answer the question from my previous post, you feel more like ranting than thinking.

Yes, having had an extended hospital stay and a couple of surgeries in the past year, I'm well aware of what they cost. Unless I'm getting profoundly ripped off, though - and maybe even then - that is irrelevant provided I can pay them at a nice, leisurely rate of what I would spend on my insurance premiums each month. Is this realistic? It probably depends on the size of the bill involved. Having worked in the insurance office of a surgery facility, I was aware of many people being on a straightforward payment plan where they sent some small amount of money each month, though, so I think it's not unrealistic if you call and talk to the business office at your provider.

Your tournament/ring game analogy is flawed, because what you're talking about is chip EV, not $ EV. Decisions in a tourney are still made to maximize EV, but the EV that you are interested in is $ EV, and frequently decisions that improve that look very different from ring game decisions, where, modulo image concerns and the like, chip EV and $ EV are the same thing.
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  #17  
Old 04-04-2005, 04:15 PM
Worrots Worrots is offline
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Default Re: Sleeping wrong and waking up with a painful, stiff neck

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see health insurance companies existing if they aren't making a profit ... if you know you're particularly unhealthy...

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I'm going to try and not talk too much like an economist here.

The insurance company doesn't exist to provide you with health care. It exists to take the financial risk off your hands -- that's what you're paying them to do and what they get a profit for doing. You don't know ahead of time whether you're going to get hit by a bus -- you pay them to bear the financial risk of it happening.

Without insurance:
EV = (probability uninjured)*(all your money) - (probability hit by bus)*(cost of health care)

This is high variance as p(bus) is small but c(health care) is potentially huge.

With insurance:
EV = (all your money) - (small relative cost of insurance)

Your variance is very small -- whether or not your EV is smaller depends on the probabilities.

Note that we're talking financial EV here, actual EV (utility) differs. Most people value the money they have already more than the money they might get later i.e. they're risk averse i.e. a probability-adjusted dollar lost to health care costs is worth more than a dollar saved by not buying health insurance.

In other words, unless you're one of those rare people who somehow enjoy gambling way beyond your bankroll, paying someone else to take on your risk of catastrophic health care is EV+. (Assuming your basic needs of food, water, shelter, clothing, etc. are already met.)
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  #18  
Old 04-04-2005, 04:25 PM
gumpzilla gumpzilla is offline
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Default Re: Sleeping wrong and waking up with a painful, stiff neck

[ QUOTE ]

Note that we're talking financial EV here, actual EV (utility) differs. Most people value the money they have already more than the money they might get later i.e. they're risk averse i.e. a probability-adjusted dollar lost to health care costs is worth more than a dollar saved by not buying health insurance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now this is a good argument, and happens to be one that I agree with. In my original post, this was what I was alluding to with the 60-40 for all your assets gamble.
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  #19  
Old 04-04-2005, 04:28 PM
Dantes Dantes is offline
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Default Re: Sleeping wrong and waking up with a painful, stiff neck

anyways the answer is have her lie down on the bed face down, get a bunch of pillows and prop up her head/neck in the most comfortable position, take off her clothes, and do her in the pooper since she can't do a damn thing about it.
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  #20  
Old 04-04-2005, 05:01 PM
istewart istewart is offline
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Default Re: Sleeping wrong and waking up with a painful, stiff neck

[ QUOTE ]
anyways the answer is have her lie down on the bed face down, get a bunch of pillows and prop up her head/neck in the most comfortable position, take off her clothes, and do her in the pooper since she can't do a damn thing about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

VNH.
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